“if one is being lead by the God then it all has to come back to the Word of God. It is the authority, not Mark Driscoll’s ability to hear directly and verbally from God, which displaces the authority of the Word of God, i.e. Sola Scriptura.”
AMEN! The thing is that Mark Driscoll would probably agree with you here. He probably believes that any leadings he has do not conflict with the Word of God. The onus would be on his critics to prove that whatever he says God spoke to him conflicts with the Word of God. (Btw, i don’t endorse Mark Driscoll)
To be led and taught by the Holy Spirit (in harmony with the truth of Scripture, never against) is the NORMAL Spirit-filled Christian life.
Otherwise, how can Jesus be LORD of someone’s life, if they just do their own will and don’t seek the will of God? To do the will of God means that God reveals His will so we can do it. It’s not good enough to say that we get all leading and guidance, concerning what to do and when to do it, from the Bible. In fact, it is sooo utterly ridiculous to suggest that you have to find a chapter and verse, first, before you do anything in life, like, Go here, go there, witness to that person etc… The people who teach this don’t do everything by chapter and verse anyway. They can’t, and no one can. If they are not being led by the Holy Spirit then they are just doing their own will, what they want to do, and hope that it is pleasing to God.
Which is worse, to miss it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or to not even believe in His guidance and just be self-willed, doing anything you want as long as it doesn’t conflict with the Bible?
The latter is worse and even more cultic.
They do not see that their belief DOES conflict with the Bible. The belief that there is no personal leading of the Holy Spirit is unScriptural and against Sola Scriptura.
Even some of the strongest proponents of Sola Scriptura, themselves, DO NOT OBEY the NT Scriptures, especially concerning gifts of the Spirit, Church government, and the function of the Church. They elevate church tradition above the Scriptures, and therefore they are against Sola Scriptura, while at the same time preaching it.
My comment from here.
August 15, 2011 at 12:53 am
ian vincent Says:
OK, when you witness to one person in a crowd, did you get a chapter and verse in order to know that you should witness to that one person, and not others?
THAT is what you’re saying, brother, and it is false.
.
.
.
.
That’s obviously not the issue. It appears you don’t understand the issue, or you are trying to avoid it.
.
.
.
I asked, OK, when you witness to one person in a crowd, did you get a chapter and verse in order to know that you should witness to that one person, and not others?
Mike replied:
.
My reply:
Your reply lacks honesty and integrity bcos YOU KNOW you are avoiding the question.
My question is a fair question and you are treating me disrespectfully.
What Mike is saying is that in the crowd scenario i described,
IT’S TOTALLY UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHOM YOU SHOULD WITNESS TO.
You are on your own. There is no leading of the Holy Spirit.
You cannot expect the Holy Spirit to lead you to a specific person, or indicate to you that you should speak to a specific person (and then, specifically which Scriptures you should speak to them).
.
.
.
.
The END result of this doctrine is that each person becomes “a god”
.
: THEY decide such things, not the Holy Spirit. THEY run the Church, not the Holy Spirit. It is INCREDIBLE arrogance.
.
.
August 15, 2011 at 1:26 am
Mike’s last word:
August 15, 2011 at 3:13 am
fob
verb
fob someone off
put off, deceive, appease, flannel (Brit. informal),
give (someone) the run-around (informal),
stall, equivocate with I’ve asked her but she fobs me off with excuses.
………………………………………………………….
I should not have suggested one is worse than the other.
One one extreme, there’s people like Rick Joyner, and on the other extreme, people like John MacArthur. I think both positions are cultic.
……………………………………………..
Mike, if you’re reading this, i put it to you that you are confusing and merging together Truth and Direction, and though these are related, they are not the same thing.
I’ve already affirmed that all Truth has to be Scripture Truth or it is not the Truth.
But DIRECTION from the Holy Spirit in the things of life, normally, is not a matter of chapter and verse.
I would be amazed if any Christian would disagree with that.
August 15, 2011 at 3:54 am
Manfred Says:
August 14, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Election is NOT the issue here. C’mon, show some integrity and address the issue, instead of using the same techniques that politicians use.
So, Manfred, you are saying that the Holy Spirit never leads disciples of Jesus, and it’s up to them to decide where to go, whom to speak to, what to speak, when to speak?
.
.
.
On one end of the spectrum, Kenneth Copeland claims to be “a god”, and on the other extreme end of the evangelical spectrum, people are claiming the same thing, claiming to be “gods”, bcos IT IS THEY WHO DECIDE WHAT THEY DO AND WHERE THEY GO and not the Holy Spirit – both extremes are extreme arrogance and rebellion, except the latter is a more respectable version.
August 15, 2011 at 6:04 am
Even more basic is prayer.
So the Holy Spirit never leads you to pray for specific people and pray specific things? It’s totally up to you to figure out who needs prayer and what to pray?
August 15, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Even more basic is being taught by God : Taught by the Holy Spirit.
Are we left alone with our intellect, alone, or do we have a Teacher who lives in us and literally teaches us the Scriptures?
Yes, He only teaches by the inspired Scriptures, yet people who don’t have this Teacher in them read the Bible and don’t understand a thing. They don’t hear His voice, and there’s the difference.
Even more basic than that is the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit.
The whole world hears the voice of God calling them to REPENT!
Therefore, hearing the voice of God is not a matter of “God told me” this or that in an audible voice, IT IS A GIVEN, a fact of life, and true for all people.
The sinner can hear the voice of God condemning their sin and calling them to repent.
The saint cannot live without the sweet fellowship and communion of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
What is fellowship with God if it is not hearing His voice?
.
.
.
NOW, when false prophets run around proclaiming “God told me” it just seems silly to those who LIVE by His voice.
It highlights to us that they really don’t have that sweet fellowship with Him when they make a big deal that they have heard from God – like, it is something only for the “elite”.