Celebrity Christians, Popularity, Criticism, Handling Criticism…. by Phil Johnson

Grab a coffee and have a listen to what Phil has to say:

…You can’t be committed to the truth, if you’re afraid of controversy…

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8 Responses to “Celebrity Christians, Popularity, Criticism, Handling Criticism…. by Phil Johnson”

ian vincent Says:
January 25, 2012 at 7:03 am
I pray that Phil will not remain a cessationist for too much longer.
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On pragmatism, and altar calls:

Reacting against the pervasive Calvinism of the Great Awakening, the successors of that great movement of God’s Spirit turned from God to humans, from the preaching of objective content (namely, Christ and him crucified) to the emphasis on getting a person to “make a decision”. “The evangelical Christians of the 19th century combined revivalism with social reform and helped lead campaigns to abolish slavery and support women’s suffrage and child labor laws. [One of the most famous 19th century revivalists,] Charles Grandison Finney, popularized the idea of the “altar call” in order to sign up his converts for the abolition movement.”[2].

Evangelical churches have taken this act of response to the proclaimed word from a corporate action and made it a private act. Many churches, particularly those that practice anabaptism, believe that one must make a public proclamation of faith based on scriptural passages found in the Bible in which Jesus states, “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.”[3][4]
[edit] Objections

Some churches object to the use of the altar call for a variety of reasons. They argue that the bible does not refer to something similar. [5] Others believe it is intimidating and therefore creates an unnecessary and artificial barrier to those who would become Christians but are then unwilling to make an immediate public profession under the gaze of others.[5]

Calvinists object to altar calls in that they may mislead people into confusing outward conduct with spiritual change. In doing so, they argue, altar calls may actually give people false assurance about their salvation.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_call
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Whether there is an altar call, or not, it is when people boldly come forward for baptism, and boldly speak, in their own words, about the assurance they now have in Christ Jesus, that we should rejoice – when we see the fruit of repentance in their life.

It’s not right for preachers to try and assure just anyone who comes forward and prays the sinners prayer, that they are saved. We have to be wise. Keep holding forth the word of life and look for God to work, and then they will speak of the assurance they have received, and will respond to the call to be baptized.

The best thing would be to have a baptism tank on hand and anyone who truly believes and is willing can be baptized right away, as per the NT precedents and examples.
ian vincent Says:
January 26, 2012 at 1:17 am

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Sounds good, James.
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BUT what happens IF the man you’re dialoging with in the Elephant Room, in good faith, in the spirit of love, turns out, by his own words, to be a false teacher, false prophet, a showman, a merchandizer ?? What will you do with him? Warn him, and then, if necessary, throw him out of the “Elephant Room”?

Or, is the “Elephant Room” a stage-managed event where there is no contingency made for dealing with the possibility that false leaders may use it as a platform for their own legitimacy? Has the end result of the “dialogue” already been rehearsed and stage-managed?

What if a bunch of crooks got together for the sake of mutual accountability, to keep one another honest? Hey, at least they’re trying to be accountable!

What if Paul the Apostle walked into the Elephant Room, what would he say? (Hey!! That aint fair! Times have changed! We couldn’t expect anyone today to have that sort of integrity!)

He may say, You guys have leeched millions of dollars, as parasites on the body of Christ. Now, I want you to start giving back all the wealth you’ve stolen from the body of Christ and apologize for merchandizing the things of God…… for starters….

I’m not angry, nor am i worried in the least about these developments.

More power to the brothers who are holding these men accountable, who just got threatened with arrest at the Elephant Room:

http://apprising.org/2012/01/25/chris-rosebrough-discusses-details-of-threat-of-arrest-at-elephant-room-2/
Mark and Vicki Finger Says:
January 26, 2012 at 4:55 am
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: THE WHOLE HEAD IS SICK, and the whole heart faint.

–Isaiah 1:4-5

Do you know how many PASTORS I hear today who have substituted human reasoning [often, some form of psychology] for faith in Christ and His finished work?

In Galatians, Paul said such were preaching another gospel, another spirit, and another jesus.
ian vincent Says:
January 26, 2012 at 5:29 am
Yes bro.

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I pray that Phil will not remain a cessationist for too much longer.

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I almost don’t blame cessationists for being cessationists. The chaotic state of Charismatic Christianity today is almost enough to drive anyone to cessationism.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that it is a false teaching.

The problem with cessationism is that it only came into existence, as a doctrine, and was invented, as a REACTION to abuses and counterfeit manifestations. It has no Scriptural support.
ian vincent Says:
January 28, 2012 at 11:32 pm

The Elephant Room may have turned out to be a little better than we expected it to. Maybe it wasn’t as scripted as we thought.

What are they gonna do with TD Jakes now? Will they still honor him as a legitimate Christian leader?

Looks like it : http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/james-macdonald-affirms-t-d-jakes/
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The “prosperity gospel” is one false doctrine, and “merchandizing the gospel” is a separate false doctrine.

One could preach against the prosperity gospel, yet still be equally guilty of merchandizing the gospel, and that is sadly the case with many in the modern church paradigm.
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Mark Driscoll on the doctrine of the Trinity (i’ve been saying the same thing for years) :
ian vincent Says:
February 3, 2012 at 1:26 am
From here:

http://apprising.org/2012/02/02/t-d-jakes-in-the-elephant-room-ii-session-4-transcript/

With my comments:

Driscoll to Jakes:

Driscoll: It takes a lot of courage and humility to put yourself in an unscripted situation and to be outside of your normal crowd.

It takes courage and humility to put yourself in a situation where you have to answer people’s questions??

Courage to meet people who don’t blindly follow and adore you, and who don’t unquestioningly accept anything you say??

An “unscripted” situation??

C’mon!

That would suggest that his normal church situation is fake and doesn’t reflect reality – insulated from reality – a show.

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Jakes:

Jakes: You know, you know, let me just make one little comment: one of the things that you said, and [garbled] even as we talked about it before, and [garbled] said this too, that there is going to be one throne and there’s going to be one God that we can see. And I thought the more I hear everybody arguing about this… we’re all saying the same thing. And we like fight about it to the death, and I just think that in the world that we’re living in today, if if we could just connect, and I know that we’ll always be depraved, and there will always be people who define themselves by their differences rather than their connections, who are more comfortable if they’re known by what they are against than by what they are for. But when I hear you say that there’s gonna be one throne and one God on that throne….

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Jesus second coming

Fast-forward to the bodily return of Jesus to the earth, when He will leave the Father’s right hand and return bodily to earth.

The Father will remain on His throne in heaven.

The Father is not coming with the LORD Jesus, He is going to stay seated on His throne.

Then, how can they say that we will only be able to see one God, that we can see seated on the Throne?

Will Jesus be invisible when He returns?

Surely, if we can see Jesus return, as a Man, then we can also His Father on His throne, as a distinct Person?

(We have to have the concept down, that God DOES NOT CHANGE in His eternal nature. He does not evolve, or manifest in different “manifestations”)

John 5:37 And the Father himself, who has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.

Jesus is saying, that in eternity past, He saw the “form” of the Father, as distinct from His own Person. He was truly WITH the Father, and they are, by the Spirit, One God.

It’s clear that Jakes denies that there are now, presently three Persons, and that the Person of the Son, as a Man, and fully God, is distinct from the Person of the Father, who is not a man.

Jesus is still a flesh and bone Man. (note His appearance to the disiples after His resurrection).

And this distinction goes on into eternity:

Then comes the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is clear that he is excepted, who did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
(1Cor 15:24-28)

MacDonald, Driscoll, et al, totally failed to ask the right questions to Jakes.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father AND the Son.
ian vincent Says:
February 4, 2012 at 4:02 am
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus…
(1Tim 2:5)

Modalism denies this, that there is a Mediator between God and men, and this Mediator is a Man.

This Mediator is NOT the Father.

This faithful High Priest is NOT the Father.

Modalism/Oneness denies the mediatorial role of The Son, now, by denying the eternal relationship between the Persons of the Godhead.

Therefore it is a FALSE GOSPEL – “another gospel”.

No Mediator? No gospel.

No Advocate with the Father? No gospel.

That is why it is from the spirit of antichrist, …denying the Father AND the Son.

Such people ARE demonized – under a demonic delusion, it is a doctrine of demons.

They can be set free, and we pray and work for that.
ian vincent Says:
February 4, 2012 at 10:20 am
(We have to have the concept down, that God DOES NOT CHANGE in His eternal nature. He does not evolve, or manifest in different “manifestations”)

The Incarnation was not God evolving. It was not a change in God, for it is written that God never changes.

If God is one Person who morphs Himself into different “manifestations” (as per Modalism) then God changes, and is not unchanging.

The Person of the Son has been with the Father from the beginning, and this Person became a Man (John 1). The Son “changed” as far as becoming flesh, becoming a Man, yet it was not a change in His Personhood and Deity – it did not alter who He is, His identity, His relationship to the Father (Philippians 2:5-11).

God the Son is presently a Man, and will be forever.

God the Father (whom Jesus still calls His Father and His God) will never be a Man.

Ian Vincent

Celebrity Christians, Popularity, Criticism, Handling Criticism…. by Phil Johnson

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