This reminds me of how one can get high on one aspect of scripture and teach it to the exclusion of the rest and in consequence not rightly divide the word of faith.

That’s right. Thanks for your contributions, brother.

It becomes A MORAL ISSUE, with these celebrity preachers, bcos THEY KNOW WHICH VERSES OF THE BIBLE TO AVOID, and they knowingly avoid these verses which will have an adverse affect on the popularity and acceptance of their message – popularity, and therefore financial success, being their main goal.

They know which portions of the NT, if they were to preach it, would have a negative affect on the offerings they collect.

That means it’s no longer an issue of ignorance or immaturity, but a moral issue.

Like this: 1 Tim 6:9 But they that desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which plunge men into destruction and perdition.

Imagine them teaching that: Don’t desire to be rich, be content with what you have?

Or, on the fear of God:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, who after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

They know that if they taught the whole NT in a balanced way that they would probably lose over 90% of their followers and income.

That is a moral issue, not a “doctrinal” issue.

You are correct. I noticed something else. Joseph Prince was sharing at TBN. He preaches on the the names of God, Eloheim, El Sheddai, Adonai etc. but with his grace doctrine most of all he teaches on ABBA — Romans 8.15 . — but he does not say that the ABBA of our heavenly father also includes Hebrews 12: 4-17. That ABBA chastises us so that we may be “partakers of HIS Holiness” and if he does not we are not Sons but “.bastards” — the lack of truth is shocking. This reminds me of how one can get high on one aspect of scripture and teach it to the exclusion of the rest and in consequence not rightly divide the word of faith.

Also JP quotes one passage in NT which has the word “fear” and because the verse an extract from the OT, in the context of which the word “fear” is worship, he suggests Grace leads to Worship. However there are many verses in NT where the word “FEAR” is used to really suggest the wrath or terror of God, alarm etc. (5401 – greek – phobos — ) and (5399 – greek – phobeo) -afraid, fear, reverance.

Joel and Joseph, perhaps from a heart of kindness and deception are reading GRACE in an effort to allure “beaten down people” through the love of Jesus through singular verses like 1 John 4:18 that states “Perfect Loves casteth out fear” so they argue its grace and grace alone chastisement from a loving ABBA as in Hebrews 12: 4-17 is ignored.

Blessings, thanks for doing this blog.

Ian I heard Joseph Prince say: If you know the goodness and grace of our LORD truly you will not want to sin. Is there anything wrong with this statement per se ?

It’s not a complete statement: one that could stand on it’s own.

Christians can know the goodness and grace of God in a measure, and still decide to sin, but they will then redefine sin so as to appease their conscience:

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The money preachers have redefined and transformed the sin of the love of money, success, ambition, covetousness into virtue.

All these root sins (pride and love of self) have now been mysteriously transformed into VIRTUE. ( “mystery” Babylon )

Then, how could we discuss what is sin, with someone like Joseph Prince, when he has redefined sin? And redefined much of the terms of the NT?

Both the goodness and severity (righteous judgment) of God need to be considered:

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
(Rom 11:20-22)

So, God is saying to consider BOTH His goodness AND severity, not just His grace and goodness. Otherwise, a person may, under the heat of temptation, think that GRACE means that they can sin with impunity.
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Here’s an old post of mine:

http://ianvincent.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/babylon-has-the-power-to-convert-people-to-christ/

Babylon HAS the power to convert people to Christ

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Revelation 18:4-5

If Jesus’ people are in Babylon, that means that Babylon DOES preach the gospel and people are genuinely converted thru her “ministry”.

Jesus is calling HIS people out; meaning that many of His people are there.

Enough of the Word of God is preached in Babylon for people to be converted, for it is the Word which is the incorruptible seed by which people are born again (1 Peter 1:23). Even false teachers and false prophets can mention enough Scripture for people to get saved by.

Strangely enough, these “called out” ones got saved while IN religious Babylon, and were in Babylon, perhaps, for many years. Jesus is calling them OUT of the religious system in which they were saved.

Then, when Jesus called them out, they realized that just bcos the gospel is preached and people do get saved there, it does not justify the ungodly things that are practiced and approved in her. Jesus asks His child who is in Babylon, Do you approve of these things? If not, why do you support it?
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As Babylon represents false Christianity, then wherever the gospel is preached, whether by false preachers or true, people are saved by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God.

I found in the same message however him say, “Come to Singapore it is a great place to shop” which raises for me to the conern you pointed out.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any
man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all
that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
(1John 2:15-16).

My overall concern is that GRACE is being preached without HOLINESS and the ramifications and consequences of not turning to the Saviour in the context of God’s HOLINESS is not preached. They , Joel Olsteen and Joseph Prince seem to ride on the belief that if the GACE of God is understood HOLINESS and HOLY LIVING will take care of its self.

While I do not see this as a totally balanced teaching, I am not at a place where I would liken it to the great harlot or the mystery of Babylon.

Also scriptures such as:

Repent and be baptized:

I.e. REPENTENCE, is not ythought.

Hebtews 10, Hebrews 6, on the teaching of having once tasted and and fall away in sin, is not thought.

NO denomination or church teaches a totally balanced gospel and yet people are saved. I just wonder whether this is a case of the same things, and in both Joel and J Prince’s message people are being won to our Lord. ?

Even a young, inexperienced believer should have a better overall
grasp of the scriptures than these guys have.

On the matter of the fear of God:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, who
after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you,
Fear him.

When these guys “doctor” and edit the scriptures they unwittingly MOCK the LORD Jesus. To redefine what Jesus said is to mock Him and judge Him as a fool.

very serious

BUT, if a Christian DOES NOT understand this, then they may listen to and follow false teachers and leaders simply bcos they are successful, and come under their influence and be deceived. They may think that power, success and wealth trumps truth, and, themselves, fall for that lie.

Remembering the frog in the pot illustration, people have
gotten so used to the fake that they think its normal. If you throw a frog into a boiling pot of water he will immediately jump out and save himself.

However, if you put him into warm water and then gradually heat the water until it boils, he will not have the strength to jump out when he realizes that he is in danger.

Gradualism.

People are gradually CONDITIONED by false preachers until fake becomes normal.

BUT, if a Christian DOES NOT understand this, then they may listen to and follow false teachers and leaders simply bcos they are successful, and come under their influence and be deceived.

They may think that power, success and wealth trumps truth, and, themselves, fall for that lie.

………………………………………………………………..

Yesterday morning i watched the youtube of Joseph Prince appearing on TBN with Joel Osteen, and he was claiming that he, Osteen and others like
them are the first people in 2000 yrs to preach the real truth about
grace, he said “we’ve never been this way before”. Nonsense. it’s the
other way around, not in 2000 yrs has there been such shallow,
superficial and phony leaders of the Church. When he goes on about
grace, and the “Holy Spirit not convicting of sin”, what he means is
that you can pursue the love of money and self, greed and ambition,
and if your conscience bothers you, ignore that, cos now you’re under
grace and not law, therefore that could not be the Holy Spirit
convicting your conscience.

He also said that the old time preachers preached the law, the
ministry of condemnation, bcos they warned people about hell and
called them to repent.

Joseph Prince even has a teachjing where he says that nowdays we dont
need to preach repentance.

What if Paul or any of the Apostles turned up at his church? How would it be?

Remembering the frog in the pot illustration, people have
gotten so used to the fake that they think its normal

RE: Joseph Prince: there’s a reason he deletes “conviction of sin” from the Bible

the love of money and power, pride and ambition is the basic driving
force of such people

they know in their hearts this is sin

but they want it anyway

so their conscience becomes seared to these root sins, bcos they will
no longer allow the Holy Spirit to convict them of their sin

then they receive a strong delusion from God, so that now this sin is
transformed into virtue and righteousness

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any
man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all
that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
(1John 2:15-16)

the love of money becomes the foundation of their life

what John warned about here is transformed into virtue

like Gordon Gecko “Greed is good.”