This is a flow on from a comment Mark Finger made on his blog:
If we had not shared in Christ’s death (through our repentance), we could not have shared in His resurrection–so whenever fellow laborers are unwilling to partake of one another’s sufferings, they should not expect their assemblies to be filled with Christ’s resurrection power–a fact which is established by the apostolic pattern. From:
Both grace and gifts are essentially the same words. Grace = charis, and Gifts = charisma.
Both are the Divine-supernatural meeting of mans’ need by God, thru Jesus Christ. When I have grace-charis then I truly have what I need to live for, and serve, God : “…My grace is sufficient for you”, the Lord Jesus assured Paul.
When God works a gift-charisma in us and through us it is so that others will have what God wants to give them. That is, if, and when, He so chooses to use us as an instrument of His grace.
So, gifts are all about the will and love of God in supplying thru us what God deems others need; therefore, functioning in spiritual gifts is all about real compassion for others, and bearing one another’s burdens. It is an extension and manifestation of the love of Christ.
My personal burden and cry to God, in faith, means I avail the supply of God’s grace-charis for me.
And, when we participate – fellowship in the needs and burdens of others, then that means that God can then, if He wills, and in whatever measure He wills, according to our faith, supply His grace (charis-charisma) thru us to others. This is the functioning of spiritual gifts – gifts of the Holy Spirit.
It’s about knowing Jesus and loving people.
Ian.
Ian Vincent 
October 10, 2007 at 7:08 pm
That’s so good, I’m not even going to comment.
Just write it down and include it as a teaching point in my collection of scriptural expoundings.
P.S. Well, one comment (G-R-I-N): if any saint wants to be ‘charismatic’ (filled with grace and abounding in the gift of the Lord), simply speak the words of God, as God leads, to whom God instructs us to speak.
God always makes a way for His Word, Christ Jesus, the Word became flesh, and all truths concerning Him as God has purposed them to enter into the hearts of men.
Any thoughts on that, brother Ian?
October 10, 2007 at 11:12 pm
If what we contribute is truly a functioning of the gifts of the Spirit of Truth (whether prophecy, teaching, exhortation etc.) then it *should* be edifying, eh. :)
John 16:13-14 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will announce to you things to come.
He will glorify Me, for He will take from what is Mine and He will announce it to you.
Therefore, as gifts are gifts of the Spirit of Truth, then that means (according to Vs. 14 above) that the sole purpose of gifts is to glorify Jesus by revealing what is His, what pertains to Him, “..from what is mine..” , our Lord said. And what is His is ours. Glory!
The edification for us comes in our believing/apprehending of what God has already accomplished thru the death and resurrection of His Son : that which is His. The Holy Spirit, exclusively, brings and communicates what is His to us, so that we might know Him.
Here is the truth that i think Mark is referring to:
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and will remind you of all things which I said to you.
All Scripture is inspired by God, exclusively. There are no other writings inspired by God, ever, or ever will be.
The Holy Spirit, therefore, according to the Word of our Lord (Vs. 26), will exclusively work with the inspired Word, bringing each truth to our remembrance when He deems we need to hear and learn and heed it.
If we leave the truth of the Scriptures as our authority, then we leave the Holy Spirit. True.
ian.
October 11, 2007 at 7:12 am
Ian stated;
The Holy Spirit, exclusively, brings and communicates what is His to us, so that we might know Him.
This is where diverging from the truth of the WORD has resulted in the condition of the church today. Over centuries assumptions have been made by man as to what the Holy Spirit was speaking. If we stop and think about it we find many things that God has had to “unlearn” us about.
Christians have pretty much messed up using God’s gifts for there own ends. I believe we are entering a time when our opinions and our ideas about how things should be will have to fall in line with God’s word.
Because of Jesus the veil in the temple was rent and we have access to the throne and my prayer is that God will grant us ears to hear and act, using Holy Spirit gifts for God’s glory alone and we will truly decrease. This will be a giant step from what we see now in the earth in man’s self promoting use of something that is supposed to be supernatural.
O foolish Galatians…..
October 11, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Well … I think these conversations (from the previous topic to this one) have been purposeful … and it is interesting to note how, while I have found them extraordinarily enjoyable, many in the church today would read them would consider them boring, uneventful, and simplistic.
They are not satisfied with the words of God, seeking always after the wisdom of men.
Yes, that was helpful, Ian.
Bob … I agree.
Peace, brothers!
P.S. Nice and quiet here, eh?
October 11, 2007 at 1:13 pm
P.S. I love this, Ian: “God’s Word is True. Never get offended by the text. God is not an “object” of study, not a subject for debate, and not a “thing” that can be used for one’s entertainment, financial gain, self-glory or ego.”
That should be on a sticker: it needs to be ‘stuck’ in a lot of places!
October 11, 2007 at 1:19 pm
“God’s Word is True. Never get offended by the text. God is not an “object” of study, not a subject for debate, and not a “thing” that can be used for one’s entertainment, financial gain, self-glory or ego.”
I’m going to put that on the front of all my notebooks (containing scriptural studies).
October 12, 2007 at 1:40 am
Re: “…many in the church today would read them would consider them boring, uneventful, and simplistic. They are not satisfied with the words of God, seeking always after the wisdom of men.”
Malachi 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD
spake often one to another:
and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD,
and that *thought* upon his name.
“Thought upon His name” : “thought” – also, i like the word “consider” (though, ponder or meditate are fine).
So many times the Lord asks people to consider their ways, or to consider a truth.
Job 37:14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and *consider* the wondrous works of God.
Psalm 8:3 When I *consider* thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Eccl. 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they *consider* not that they do evil.
Jer. 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall *consider* it perfectly.
Haggai 1:5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; *Consider* your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; *Consider* your ways.
2 Tim. 2:7 *Consider* what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
Heb. 10:24 And let us *consider* one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb. 12:3 For *consider* Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Matt. 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? *Consider* the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
———————————————————————
Re: “Never get offended by the text.”
1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them
which stumble at the word, (offended by the text)
being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Like: “Which part of ‘Thou shalt not’ didn’t you understand?”
Today, few will admit they are offended by the text, even when they are, as that would be an admission of guilt, and that would be humiliating.
The serpent is a slippery beast (oily) and trying to pin him down to admit he’s wrong is like trying to nail jello to the wall. It’s an endless sequence of semantics and convoluted circular logic. That is, a person who has been deceived by the devil can never humble themselves like a little child to believe the text, in truth. Sin’s deceitfulness has deceived them, and they have deceived themselves as much as they been deceived by the deceiver.
Gal. 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
ian.
October 12, 2007 at 3:12 am
Isn’t a specific impression to pray for another a sharing / fellowship in the Lord’s care, where He gives (graces) us a share in understanding how He loves that person, and invites us to participate with Him, thru prayer, in supplying His grace to them? Like, we suddenly get an impression of the love of God for a person, and we know this is the call to pray.
ian.
October 12, 2007 at 5:12 am
CONSIDER…good word.
As I was considering, the Lord reminded me of;
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
The personal nature of our relationship with God as individuals and then collectivly is a source of ongoing amazement to me. As the Holy Spirit speaks to our heart before we know the Lord Jesus, as Isaiah above states, we are given an opportunity to continue the process.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written. The just shall live by faith.
Consider the vastness of God and his concern for us…..
He is a holy and righteous God and yet he births a trust in us to take him at his word. The only way that can happen is by us forsaking those things that so easily beset us. Things revealed by his Spirit. We don’t go chasing after him in the desert or down the block or the next conference, although those things could happen.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Until we are willing to see God according to his word, a mixture will exist which will eat away at the fabric of the life in us and we will be marginal in our effectiveness for others.
October 12, 2007 at 5:34 am
Yeah, I’m using your last comments too, Ian.
And re: your comments on prayer: absolutely, brother! In fact, I doubt that we have true relationship with anyone whom we are not drawn into prayer for … in my opinion.
Bob: excellent, substantive comments which hit at the root of the issue. We must come to God as a child at all times: not just in the beginning; for our initial, repentant response to God should bear fruit all our lives.
Thanks for the truths, brothers. Edifying for the purposes which the Lord works in me … and for others.
Peace
October 12, 2007 at 11:11 am
Bob wrote:
“He is a holy and righteous God and yet
**he births a trust in us to take him at his word. **
The only way that can happen is by us forsaking those things that so easily beset us. Things revealed by his Spirit. We don’t go chasing after him in the desert or down the block or the next conference, although those things could happen.”
Yes, the Pioneer (author) and Finisher of our faith. When we cry “Father!” we acknowledge that everything we have, and all that we are, has it’s origin in Him. As Bob put it, even down to the very ability to trust Him, and to even appreciate what trust and love is, all are qualities He endows us with in Christ. We never achieve anything, eh. We just sort of “wake up” to what He’s already blessed us with, every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Re: “..chasing after Him in the desert ..” etc. (God chasers) Sheela received a word a few months back that really blessed me:
But the righteousness of faith says thus, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who shall ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) or, ” ‘Who shall descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring up Christ from the dead). But what does it say?
“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith which we proclaim):
(Rom 10:6-8)
Want a word from the Lord? Are you earnestly seeking His guidance? The answer is already in your mouth and in your heart. It’s there. He is that close. That’s “the word of faith”. The guidance you seek is not floating around in the ether, and it’s not at the prophetic conference either. :)
Excuse the “you”; the guidance WE seek. The wisdom we seek.
ian.
October 12, 2007 at 11:28 am
Mark wrote:
“I doubt that we have true relationship with anyone whom we are not drawn into prayer for … in my opinion.”
Yep.
ian.
October 12, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Mark wrote:
“I doubt that we have true relationship with anyone whom we are not drawn into prayer for … in my opinion.”
In John 17 Jesus prays that we, the saints, be one as he and the Father are one.
The disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray and we have the Lord’s prayer. By Jesus example we can get our priorities in line. The first thing the disciples hear is worship for God, “Our Father, who is in heaven, holy is thy name”.
Second, God’s will, “thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”
When the priorities are in line then we can come by grace and his provision for us.
“Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts AS WE forgive our debtors, lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil….”
YES, YES, YES, we have THE perfect template for praying for others.
October 13, 2007 at 4:39 am
Yep, the Lord’s Prayer is a “spiritual template” for prayer, a guide, bcos our Lord said, definitively : “Pray in this manner..” (as distinct from “pray this prayer”)
” …When the priorities are in line then..” yes, He has priorities, no doubt about it, and we should get our priorities in agreement with His, eh. Daily readjustment, if we get off track. Daily, hourly.
ian.
August 19, 2009 at 11:40 am
Nice blog. Enjoyed going through it. Keep it up the good work. Cheers :)
August 19, 2009 at 1:20 pm
What is the banner picture of…? Why is there barbed wire…?