Universalism Debunked

Universalism is a growing cult in christendom. It is the belief that ultimately ALL people will be saved and reconciled to God in Christ. It’s sometimes called Ultimate Reconciliation.

Universalism is a twisting of Scripture, and it is easily debunked by the Scriptures themselves, by looking at the whole counsel of God.

Here is a favorite Universalist proof-text:

Eph 1:10 for an administration of the fullness of the times, He might bring together all things in Christ, those in heaven and those on the earth–In Him.

Does this mean that everyone is going to be gathered into Christ? Not at all!

Here is the proof:

Therefore just as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, thus it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who work iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

(Mat 13:40-43)

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet having been cast into the sea, and gathering some of every kind, which, when it was filled, they pulled up on the shore; and sitting down, they collected the good into vessels, but the rotten they threw out. Thus it shall be at the end of the age: the angels shall go forth and separate the evil from among the righteous, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

(Mat 13:47-50)

These (and many other scriptures) interpret Eph.1:10 for us.

Notice, how in these scriptures, the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven is not marked by a great coming together in Christ (as Universalists teach) but rather by a great dividing and separation, of light from darkness, and that separation is eternal judgment.

The reason that ALL things will one day be IN CHRIST is bcos all that offends is going to be separated away and banished forever in the lake of fire.

All God’s enemies will be gone (in the lake of fire) and hence, all things in heaven and earth shall be gathered together IN CHRIST, perfectly.

There will be no one outside of Christ then.

What are the implications of Universalism, and for Universalists, then?

· It accuses Jesus Christ of being a liar.

· It diminishes the fear of God.

· It is a classic “doctrine of demons” – has a satanic source, yet its him masquerading as “an angel of light”.

28 Responses to “Universalism Debunked”

  1. Jamie Says:

    I think there are even more universalists among us than we realize, masquerading as true bible believers. Some don’t call themself a universalist because they don’t really know what that means, and others just aren’t bold enough to come out of the closet just yet.
    It is the predominate humanist religion of these end times.

  2. ianvincent Says:

    That’s for sure sister. Why am i always agreeing with you? :)

    Also, the tricky ones know they are Universalists – – know what they teach is Universalism, but, when asked to explain, flatly deny that they are.

    The ol ” trying to nail the jello to the wall ” trick. Tricky and slimy.

  3. Jamie Says:

    Some aren’t out of the closet because it will cost them fans…umm ur….. I meant readers. They’ll come out more openly soon because UR will become mainstream.

    I’m afraid the ones who are impressed with man won’t make it either in the long run- except God intervene by His grace.

  4. Catrina Says:

    Universalism appeals to the flesh and that’s why it is becoming a popularly received message. Men want to believe that no matter how they live or what they believe in this life, they can still make heaven; still have eternal life outside of the narrow way (which is believing in and surrender to the only way to life which is Jesus Christ).

    Universalists start with a graven image of God in their minds and prooftext a few favorite scriptures to try and prove it. In Matthew 7:14&15 Jesus says that few find the narrow and strait gate that leads to life and then almost in the same breath afterward warns of false prophets which come in sheeps clothing. So could we deduce that only a “few” being able to find the narrow way is connected to the false prophets that come in sheep’s clothing teaching things that are contrary to this narrow way?

    Today we have many teaching things that negate what Jesus said – that He is THE way, THE truth, THE life and no man comes to the Father except by Him. He is the door, the gate that we must go thru to have eternal life.

  5. Jamie Says:

    I just want to thank the ones who did speak up concerning UR. I appreciate you, Cat, and all the ones who oversee Crossrevival because they stood together in unity. Marks post was like a glass of refreshing iced water (the voice of reason)

    Ian’s head is wanted on a platter. I’m praying for my brother.

  6. ianvincent Says:

    Your prayers are much appreciated sister. But, a bit of slander doesn’t bother me. “Soldiers of the Cross” . Getting burnt at the stake would be a bit upsetting, though.
    —————————————————————-

    Amen Catrina.

    On UR/Universalism:

    UR avoids and REMOVES “the offense of the Cross” to the rebel.

    The Cross IS (was) the JUDGMENT of the world, and it divides eternally, the saints from the chaff, which are to be burned.

    Furthermore, when you read chapter 1, it is clear that Chip is offended by the Cross (eternal judgment) and he stumbles over the rock of offense, the “skandalon” “scandal” , he is scandalized (offended) by the TRUTH that God sends unrepentant sinners to an eternal lake of fire. He is judging Jesus Christ. Chip is spitting in His face.

    I’ve never had a witness with Chip’s writings on “the cross” , bcos i had a witness that he doesn’t himself take up his cross and follow Jesus to death, rather, i got the impression that he rather fancies himself. And that “impression” has been borne out to be a true discernment.

    Talking about the cross is EASY. Taking it up is another thing.

    Chip can still take up his cross and follow Jesus, its not too late.

  7. ianvincent Says:

    ………..of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of **eternal** judgment. And let us do this if indeed God permits. For it is

    ***impossible***

    for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and became partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powerful deeds of the age to come, and having fallen away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and hold Him up to contempt.
    (Heb 6:2-6)

  8. ianvincent Says:

    In ch 1. he is saying that to tell the truth about the eternal fiery judgment is “bad news” (somehow bad PR for God) , and the “good news” is that there is no eternal judgment, so if you die without Jesus, you will get another chance, and bcos His Kingdom is IRRESISTIBLE, you won’t be able to RESIST His love, when you’re weeping and gnashing your teeth in the lake of fire. When He thinks you’ve suffered enough there and comes and gives you your “second chance”, you won’t be able to RESIST the offer of getting out of hell!!!

    Excuse the sarcasm.

    An accursed, false gospel. ( Gal. 1)

    Hell and the lake of fire is, how to express it in words? – – it’s an unimaginable horror and terror. Those preachers who make light of it are evil, just con men.

    I’m glad that all this came out on the forum, as we all need to be equipped and ready for this barrage of the false counterfeit gospel that is coming.

    If anyone wants to read the last chapter of the book “The Irresistible Kingdom” by Chip Brogden, just mail me, ian-vincent@hotmail.com

  9. Chris Anderson Says:

    Just happened on this discussion, and will add three supportive points.

    1) The objective of Christian Universalism is to remove the enmity of Gen. 3:15 on which the entire Bible is founded. The doctrine runs counterintuitively to the Scriptures which are in their entirety based on this root separation between Lucifer and Christ, one which scripture no where declares can or will be eliminated. The Gen. 3:15 enmity is left open ended and no promise of its healing through reconciliation is ever uttered. Had the cross offered the healing of that enmity rather than offering its permanent sealing in fulfilment of the Gen 3:15 prophecy, the Spirit would have articulated that directly through the founding apostles with proof. Instead, then open-ended enmity continues to the very last chapter of Revelation.

    2) Lucifer could not defeat Christ by direct contest, so must attempt another strategy. That strategy is what I call the “Adonijah” strategy. Adonijah could not become king by contesting Solomon who distrusted him and beat him, so Adonijah sought a slippery way to reach Solomon through his mother whom Solomon would trust. Likewise, Lucifer cannot gain our embrace in his own right. We distrust him. But he believes he can gain our trust by first teaching the reconciliation of all men, which appeals to our hearts in view of God’s stated love for mankind. If Lucifer can convince us of that much, then it is a short step to believe that Lucifer himself will one day become “embraceable” too. If one adds present tense “faith” to that mix, he can then believe Lucifer is embraceable now “by faith” because he will be restored one day. This easily enables the present tense receiving of Lucifer as Christ.

    3) Given the warfare against Lucifer charged to us in these ages, even if we were to accept the theoretical possibility of eventual universal reconciliation, it is not a revelation God would give to this age because it could only undermine His purpose for us to maintain the psychological ability to view Lucifer as our enemy. Since this is inescapably true, universal reconciliation is therefore proven to be a doctrine of Lucifer, not of God. As such, it is therefore a doctrine of spiritual treason against the Son of God by any within the church who hold to it.

  10. ianvincent Says:

    Thanks Chris.

    RE: “But he believes he can gain our trust by first teaching the reconciliation of all men, which appeals to our hearts in view of God’s stated love for mankind.”

    Yes, and whether people realize it or not, when they believe what the devil says (like Univ. Rec.) in contrast to what God says, then they are serving him by default. And in this case the lie is a perverted view of God’s love for mankind.

    UR is really the epitome of humanism, as the natural man recoils from the awful fact of eternal punishment, it’s too shocking to fathom, so he constructs the ‘truth’ according to his own makeup – fashions a god in his own image. We are made in God’s image; He wasn’t made in ours – that’s humanism.

    RE: “If Lucifer can convince us of that much, then it is a short step to believe that Lucifer himself will one day become “embraceable” too. If one adds present tense “faith” to that mix, he can then believe Lucifer is embraceable now “by faith” because he will be restored one day. This easily enables the present tense receiving of Lucifer as Christ.”

    Yes, it’s “sympathy for the devil” all over again. If the devil is going to be reconciled (as UR states) then why not love him now, and embrace him as our brother?

  11. Matt Says:

    Please understand that most Christian Universalists don’t reject the doctrine of the Lake of Fire, nor that most people go there. We’re more alike than you may think. The main difference is the context of the punishment. It is not forever, but of an age. And it is not out of petty vengeance, but for correction and redemption.

    The way the New Testament was originally written supports this. The fact also is that eternal punishment simply does not jive with what is written in the Greek New Testatment.

    Futhermore, I have Scriptures that support my view, and so do you. At least in English. Though if you check the Greek Scriptures (I’m learning at this point, by no means an expert), you find overwhelming support for the UR point of view.

    Furthermore, eternal punishment fails one very important litums test; that of logic. UR is logically consistent because it resolves the problem of evil.

    Christ is the only way. Christ died for all of our sins. Christ did not do this in vain. He did not fail. Not one shall be lost. but not everyone finds salvation at the same time. Most will not find it by accepting Christ and will be condemened to the Lake of Fire. It will be a terrible experience, unspeakable. But complete good must ultimately come of it. There is no good coming from a God who claims to love you but will fry you for eternity. Turn or burn, as they say…

    Only one of two conclusions are possible if eternal torment is true.
    1. God is unwilling to save all of His Creation. If that’s true, God is the worst, most sadistic monster of all time, making Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc, look like a boy scout troop. And completely unworthy of worship.
    2. God is unable ot save all of His Cration. In which case, He has been subverted by his Creation and is pathetic. Again, unworthy of worship.

    There is no way around it. Any arguments for eternal Hell, be they about free will, justice, “righteousness”, must end at one of these two conclusions. Period.

    I’ll wait until I have some genuine interest in discussing this before I post further, on things like the 4 words “Hell” is translated from, etc. Unless you want to have a serious dialogue about this issue, save it. No name calling, condemnations, meanness or the like.

    It’s been said that people who aren’t asking the right questions are not ready for the answers. And there’s a lot of truth to that. (Disclaimer here, before my words are twisted: I do NOT claim to have all the answers. But UR has given me peace, a more satisfying relationship with my Lord and Savior, and solved many of the inconsitencies in Christianity.)

    In His Holy name,
    Matt

  12. ianvincent Says:

    Matt, Would you give some thought to how the Lake of Fire could be a redemptive punishment? How does it work redemption?

    Islam believes in such a god, who forcefully forces people to submit to him.

    Are you saying that if God tortures people enough, then they will finally realize how much He loves them and repent?

    (regardless of any replies, i will be deleting your post soon. Not with any ill will, rather, i’m responsible for what i allow here, which may lead some astray)

    Looking fw. to your answer.

  13. ianvincent Says:

    Matt,

    Will millions of years of torture in the Lake of Fire bring the damned, and the devil and his angels, finally to saving faith in Jesus Christ? That’s what UR teaches.

    Matt, you say that only a monster would do such a thing.

    That is bcos you are trying to create an image of God in YOUR image : which conforms to your natural sin-corrupted mind and thinking.

    Matt, have a look at this:

    Joh 3:15 ThatG2443 whosoeverG3956 believethG4100 inG1519 himG846 should notG3361 perish,G622 butG235 haveG2192 eternalG166 life.G2222

    eternal:

    G166
    αἰώνιος
    aiōnios
    ahee-o’-nee-os
    From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): – eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

    So, salvation or eternal life is for “aiōnios”

    As is eternal damnation, which is essentially the same word.

    Rev 20:10 AndG2532 theG3588 devilG1228 that deceivedG4105 themG846 was castG906 intoG1519 theG3588 lakeG3041 of fireG4442 andG2532 brimstone,G2303 whereG3699 theG3588 beastG2342 andG2532 theG3588 false prophetG5578 are, andG2532 shall be tormentedG928 dayG2250 andG2532 nightG3571 for ever and ever.G1519 G165 G165

    G165
    αἰών
    aiōn
    ahee-ohn’
    From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): – age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

    ‘Forever AND ever’ is a strengthened, more emphatic
    form of ‘forever’, stressing that it is eternal.

    This same phrase G165 is used by Jesus to describe everlasting life and also used in Revelation to denote the duration of the Kingdom of God, that he will be glorified for ever and ever.

    So, then , to suggest that God’s Kingdom will come to an end is preposterous, and the same phrase is used to determine the duration of the lake of fire.

    So, salvation and damnation both have the same duration, which is eternity.

    UR wrongly asserts that “aiōnios” means “till the end of a certain age” meaning, it has an end.

    The problem with this is that the ‘ages to come’ have no end, unless God has an end.

    What the UR people are saying is: that there will be a string of future ages, and then an end of those ages; that the ages will be going along and then an age will come which will come to an end.

    So, when that future ‘final’ age comes to an end, what comes next? The next age? Or does everyone and God just check out and cease to exist?

    And if another age follows the ‘final’ age, then the final age wasn’t the last one, was it.

    Whatever ‘age’ one considers to be the ‘final age’, there will be yet another age when that one ends, and after that…..

    Wonderful to think about if one loves the truth in Christ Jesus. Good news.

  14. Matt Says:

    Ian,

    I haven’t a cluse

    You are contradicting yourself in your definition of “aionos.” It can only be one or the other; eterntiy or an age with a definite start and end. Which is it?

    The answer is the age with a start and a finish. It’s where we obtain the English word eon. A long time, to be sure, but one with a start and an end. The true Greek word for eternity is “aiodos with a d.” That word is never applied to describe “Hell” (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, properly, 3 different places, Sheol and Hades being the same, a mere grave.)

    Now let’s look at the Greek words for “brimstone” and “torment”world for brimstone indicating divine purifying power,

    Theion is the Greek word for brimstone, and basanizo is the Greek word for torment. If you are truly interested in what these mean, check out Strong’s concordance G2303 and G928.

    God’s Kingdom (never-ending) will not be established until Christ has had His millenial reign and all things have been reconciled to Him. Check out Colossians 1:15-20 for a cross-reference on that.

    You’ve been respectful and listened in this debate. Please let me know if you have further questions. But please, don’t delete my post. Surely if you believe I’m wrong, that those here will be able to discern that as well, no?

  15. Matt Says:

    Sorry, I didn’t proofread closely enough and I originally started to type another thought first. I was going to say “I haven’t a clue why you would delete my post.” My apologies for the error.

  16. ianvincent Says:

    Matt, you haven’t responded to any of the points i made?

    Will the millions of years of torture bring forth saving faith in the wicked and the devil and his angels?

    The Lake of Fire is “…for ever and ever ” .G1519 G165 G165 , and this is the same phrase used to describe how long God will live,

    in Rev. 15:7 :

    “…of God,G2316 who livethG2198 for ever and ever.” G1519 G165 G165

    Check it out.

    So, if the Lake of Fire has an end, then so does God.

    Now, who would want to blaspheme God like that by saying that He has an end? I’ll give you one guess.

  17. Matt Says:

    Hi Ian;

    We don’t know if it will be millions of years in the Lake of Fire. We don’t know how long. We do know it’s an age, not forever. But God’s promise is to reconcile (apokatallasso) all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. So yes…I do believe that faith will come to the wicked, the Devil and His angels. Nothing…NOTHING in this universe is beyond our Great God’s power. Not even Lucifer’s redemption.

    Lake of Fire is eternal. Using it in Revelation 15:7 is not necessarily a limitation on God’s lifespan. God is forever. “Liveth” in this sentence should really be “is living”. What this is saying is that God is the only being in the Universe who has been living through all past ages and who will be alive in all future ages, until the end of the ages. Obviously, he lives on after the end of ages.

  18. ianvincent Says:

    No, there’s one thing He actually can’t do : He can’t LIE.

    What you are saying is an insidious lie, and an accusation against the Lord Jesus Christ, calling Him a liar.

  19. ianvincent Says:

    When i ponder on what ever lasting life means, i get pretty excited. The reality of knowing Jesus Christ and having His ever lasting life is beyond words to describe the wonder and the joy of it : joy inexpressible.

    We are so aware of time in this life. We know we don’t have much time down here. But our life is an ever lasting life, and we will live in a new body forever.

  20. ianvincent Says:

    Made this comment on a forum, Re: this discussion with Matt:

    RE: ‘Abandoning the rules of logic’ :

    The other day i had a Universalist comment on my blog and he said that the lake of fire is only for a certain age, and then it finishes and the people get out.

    I showed him that the very same phrase “for ever and ever” , as applied to the lake of fire, also is used for God, who lives “for ever and ever” : exactly the same phrase in the Greek.

    Unbelievably (or believably) the guy had an explanation, only there was no logic to it.

    So, is it a moral issue? ; that is, the guy knows he is lying? Or, are such people given over to a delusion to the point that they believe that what they say is logical?

  21. fleebabylon Says:

    Brother –

    I found this post randomly on google search – wasnt even looking in your blog! I was searching for information on Chip and UR. He writes a lot of good things about the Church but I consider this matter to be too great to ever support his writings. I wonder why he wont just come out and state one way or the other. Why not bring it all into the light? -Jim

  22. ian vincent Says:

    I’m the same, since i found out that he teaches UR i don’t bother to read anything of his. He’s not alone, it is a growing trend, and especially in the “house church” movement. Much “house church” now is not far from “Emergent” It is of the spirit of antichrist.

    Why not bring it all into the light? In his mind he has defended his position, but pride has blinded him from seeing that his defense was double-talk and mumbo jumbo.

    The promoters of UR believe they are God’s PR agents who have saved God from the embarassing position of appearing to be a tyrant. Nice of them to help Him out! (and make a few bucks as well!)

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    The reason that ALL things will one day be IN CHRIST is bcos all that offends is going to be separated away and banished forever in the lake of fire.

    All God’s enemies will be gone (in the lake of fire) and hence, all things in heaven and earth shall be gathered together IN CHRIST, perfectly.

  23. Patti Says:

    Wow-I will look into what has been said about Chip being an under cover universalist. I had read many of this articles about “the church” in the past and my spirit checked with them. If he even smells of universalism, I take that as a warning from God to back out of even reading any more from him. I agree that things are going this way “out there” and the signs of the times of “demons of doctrines” are cleverly being devised and received today. I am seeing that all satan’s doctrines run so close and parallel to the truth, it is staggering!!! And we cannot without the discernment of the Spirit within us distinguish between the two. The reason people are caught up in them, as God says, is because they did not love the truth. One of God’s major truths, that is being either ignored or denied is of Him saying we must “deny ourselves” and “take up our cross” and follow Him. Our crucifixion is fundamental in our flesh being destroyed so that His presence in us can have it’s way. If we don’t willingly give God permission to do this in us, all we have is flesh (which God says dwells no good thing) to operate in and respond with. The doctrines that come along which basically says, “it’s all about you” our flesh naturally eat of, all the while, thinking we are in God because the word “grace”, for example is used. The interpretation of that grace, however, is defined according to the lusts of the flesh, and not by the spirit, so the heinous doctrines of demons perpetuate themselves, to those who are earth men and not men of the spirit, or sons of God. Oh, how dark is that darkness!!!

  24. ian vincent Says:

    Well put!

  25. Marcus Says:

    Is the lake of fire also going to be in Christ?
    If it’s not and if it’s eternal, then what about eph 1?

  26. ian vincent Says:

    Putting these two truths alongside each other:

    (Matthew 13:47-50 [KJV]) [47] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: [48] Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. [49] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, [50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    (Ephesians 1:10 [KJV]) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    They are both true.

    It means the WAY God brings all things together in Christ is to remove those who are not in Christ.

    This principle is described numerous times.

    (Matthew 13:41-43 [KJV]) [41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; [42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    (Revelation 21:22-27 [KJV]) [22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. [23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. [24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. [25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. [26] And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. [27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

  27. ian vincent Says:

    As well, in many references to eternal punishment scripture is emphatic that it has no end.

    Jesus said “the fire is not quenched”, which means it is a never ending fire.

    In Revelation the torment of the Lake of Fire is described as being “forever and ever” , and this is the same phrase in the original Greek which describes the rule of Christ’s Kingdom, and those who reign with him.

  28. ian vincent Says:

    Here’s an analogy:

    Think of a glass full of muddy water.

    Now, our goal is that all the water will be pure.

    The only way this can be done is to remove the impurity.

    After all the impurity is removed then all the water is pure.

    Similarly, after all the judgments are over and done, all the water will be pure.

    Because the impurity will have been separated.

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