I’ve gotta back track on this one. I used to believe that healing was part of the Atonement – that is, that the Atonement is the basis by which we can pray in faith for healing in Jesus name.
Then, this morning I feel I got a revelation, quite unexpectedly. I feel the Lord directed my attention to all the times He physically healed people PRIOR to the Atonement; from the earliest days; from the days of the Israelites (obedient ones) who walked in perfect health, protected from all diseases, as God promised them:
….If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee. Exodus 15:26
God was the LORD that heals : Elijah raising the dead, David’s many references to God as a healer and a protector from disease, and many other OT healings; right up to the healing ministry of our LORD Jesus Christ, all prior to Him making Atonement for sin.
And, all these healings were perfect healings, and all those healed eventually died; receiving healing didn’t give them immortality of the body.
And here is my point: The Atonement did not change the way that God physically heals people, nor His willingness to heal. He heals the same way today as He did before He sent His Son into the world and before He made Atonement for the sin of the world.
Yet, the Atonement radically changed the way in which God deals with sin, and the OT saints were only perfected when their sins were atoned for at Calvary ; then, the people of faith, of the Old Covenant, entered the New Covenant :
….And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb. 11:39-40.
During our LORD Jesus’ earthly ministry (prior to His Atonement) He could perfectly heal the sick, but He could not make sinners into new creations in Him by the Holy Spirit. Only after He made Atonement for our sin could He make us new creations in Him, by sending the Holy Spirit to indwell us forever.
Therefore, physical healing is something distinct from the Atonement, and this harmonizes with this Scripture:
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. Matt. 8:16-17
…That is, He was bearing our sicknesses before the Atonement, before He bore our sins, and also, His baring our sicknesses cannot be understood as Him atoning for our sicknesses : Jesus didn’t become sick for us, but He did become sin for us:
…For he has made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Cor. 5:21
The benefits (results) of the Atonement are eternal benefits, whereas physical healing is only a temporary benefit.
Where’s the application in this? Even if it’s only that the argument (and doubts) over whether there is healing in the Atonement is laid to rest, that would be a good thing. There may be other applications also.
Ian Vincent 
December 20, 2008 at 3:50 am
What happened on the Cross?
WOF says that God (or the devil) put all the sickness of the world on Jesus.
Does anyone believe that Jesus became afflicted with every sickness while hanging on the Cross?
Jesus healed perfectly before the Atonement, as He still does today. The Atonement didn’t change that.
I’ve been healed in the past, when i believed in healing in the atonement : such a belief need not hinder a person’s genuine faith in God’s willingness and promises to heal.
Before the Atonement, Jesus well and truly established that it is the Father’s good and perfect will that those who are in His covenant should be healed and well, by healing all.
This was already established in the Law.
But the ‘healing in the atonement’ belief can lead to wacky things – denial of reality, and even shipwrecked faith.
And, we would be foolish to put physical healing into the same category as the forgiveness of sins.
There’s no margin for error, with the forgiveness of sins : either you believe God in Christ forgave you or you don’t.
And if you do, then you ARE forgiven.
Not so cut and dried with healing. You can claim that you “were healed” (by his stripes) and declare you are healed, and still NOT be healed.
Not so with forgiveness.
When i say “i am forgiven”, it’s not “i hope i’m forgiven”, i’m declaring a fact.
But how can you declare that you “were healed” when you are still sick?
With the forgiveness of sins there can be no such discrepancy, as there can be with physical healing.
December 21, 2008 at 2:29 am
On a forum, Susan wrote:
“the bible and Jesus puts physical healing in the same category as the forgiveness of sins:” unquote
Hi Susan,
You might want to ask me what i mean by ‘the same category’.
As you read thru the NT you’ll find hundreds of references verifying that Christ Jesus substitutionally died for our sin. This is the whole emphasis of Romans, for example.
Never once is it taught that He substitutionally died for our sickness.
Does that make sense?
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I used to believe that healing was part of the Atonement. Only in the last year has the LORD showed me (without me looking for it) that its not.
And it hasn’t shaken my faith for healing and wellness one iota.
We are missionaries in central India. We’ve lived in a malaria belt for the last 11 years and never gotten malaria, while so many around us get it. The same malaria mosquitoes bite us. Then why don’t we get it?
My testimony is that according to my understanding of Scripture and the promises of God, it is not His will to give me malaria, unless i was in disobedience and came under His chastening.
Whatever, God gave me the faith to believe this and its a reality. Jesus said ‘if you CAN believe, all things are possible..’ By the grace of God there are things i find it easy to believe and trust God for.
But some Christians find it hard to believe that God could supernaturally protect them from disease. I’m not condemning them.
If we were in the other fishing boats after Peter had walked on the water, would we have said “Good on ya Pete!” acknowledging his faith, or would we get resentful that he walked on the water and we didn’t?
But if i believed that God could and would, for no reason, just allow me to get malaria at any time, then i would have no ‘shield of faith’ , and anything the devil wanted to give me i would think that God is giving it to me.
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#
Another point:
The word Atonement comes from the word ‘exchange’. The term ‘the great exchange’ accurately describes the Atonement.
When a person truly repents and believes (one action) in Jesus Christ, then they have partaken of (obtained) this great exchange.
They no longer have any sin before God, they have Christ’s righteousness.
Their sin is no longer imputed to them.
Now, try and say the same things here for sickness.
Could i substitute the word ’sin’ with ’sicknesses’, in the above statements?
That i no longer have any sicknesses in God’s sight?
Otherwise, how would you die? People’s bodies finally give up on them. How can that be if a great exchange has taken place and there is no more sickness in God’s sight?
December 21, 2008 at 6:55 am
Fascinating Ian… love to have you discuss that on the forum as you feel led as well.
December 21, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I don’t believe that salvation and healing are on the same level, concerning our faith.
You can only become a new creation once, and it is an instant regeneration, and is eternal. A person can’t lapse in and out of salvation, as they can with healing (wellness).
If a person ever turns away (Hebrews tells us) they can’t regain their salvation.
But healing comes and goes.
There’s no teaching on healing in the atonement in the NT. It’s not taught as a doctrine, the subject is never brought up. Not even the briefest explanation of it.
Rather the Lordship of Christ is preached, bcos of His death, burial and resurrection.
When i’m only interested in Jesus’ LORDSHIP and reign over me, then the only issue is to do His will joyfully in faith, to run the race and finish my course.
The shield of faith, therefore, should deflect every poison arrow of the enemy which is sent to stop us finishing our course. (Eph. 6)
Occasionally getting a cold or something like that will not hinder us finishing the work we have been given.
Finally, to be saved requires simple child like faith, and it’s a gift. Every saved person is equally saved and equally holy IN Christ. By exercising ‘more’ faith you can’t get ‘more saved’ than what you are already IN Christ.
Healing is not the same. If any person falls away from Christ it IS due to unbelief. If any person ever get’s sick it’s not necessarily due to any defect in their faith.
If healing is in the atonement, equally, as salvation is, then why are there ‘gifts of healings’ and ‘gifts of faith’? Every saved person has the gift of faith to believe to the saving of their soul, but not the gift of faith to have perfect health.
Though i reckon that the ‘shield of faith’ is not widely understood and believed these days.
December 22, 2008 at 3:13 am
My wife just read this and added: It was in Paul’s flesh (body) he had a thorn, not in his spirit, soul or mind.
December 22, 2008 at 3:19 am
Peacebringer. thanks for the invite.
December 23, 2008 at 3:51 am
It should be said that the ultimate result of the Atonement is TOTAL : ultimately, a total new creation, where there will be no death, sin, sickness or sorrow.
That needs to be acknowledged.
Yet, if a Christian ever gets sick or even dies of that sickness, it would be not true to say that that happened bcos they didn’t fully appropriate for themselves the benefits of the Atonement.
Immortality is also in the Atonement, but not for this present mortal life.
If you die, is it bcos you didn’t fully appropriate all the benefits of the Atonement, of which immortality is one? No. You get ALL the benefits, later.
2Cor 4:16 Therefore we do not despair, but even if our outward man is being destroyed (lit. is rotting away, now), yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
Perhaps i should have said: healing is in the Atonement, but not fully guaranteed in this present mortal life.
December 25, 2008 at 12:22 am
My comment on charisma forum:
Thanks Barry for putting the time into responding.
I do pray that this discussion will help people’s faith and help reveal Jesus in a greater way.
As a response to many of your comments: we do believe in healing and see healings regularly, answers to prayer, and live in His protection from disease (while we have been doing His will he has protected our bodies in wonderful ways).
Praying in Jesus name is not a tag line, mantra or a method. In His name means according to His will.
And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we should ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we may ask, we know that we have the requests that we have requested from Him.
(1John 5:14-15)
Whilst the Atonement is total in eternity, yet, in this temporal life, there is a difference between receiving salvation and forgiveness and receiving healing. And this is all i was saying.
If you trust Jesus to forgive you, your faith is firmly based on the Atonement, the finished work of Christ, and you HAVE forgiveness.
You don’t have to wait for an answer from God. And He won’t say, No. it’s not my will to forgive you at this time.
But we can’t approach healing in the same way.
Paul asked for healing and God said, No.
And lest I exalt myself above measure by the excellence of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, that it might beat me, lest I exalt myself above measure. Concerning this I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(2Cor 12:7-9)
(“flesh”, here, means his body. Not his soul, mind or spirit. It’s easily interpreted, compare :
And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise nor disdain, but as an angel of God you received me, even as Christ Jesus. What then was your blessing? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have torn out your own eyes and given them to me!
(Gal 4:14-15)
Paul obviously had some kind of eye problem. And not just weak sight. Something visually not very nice, so that Paul commended the Galatians for not despising him over it, like, ” Some man of faith this, he can’t even heal himself of eye disease!” – they didn’t say that.
To make a ‘method’ of healing, as you’ve said Barry, is not accurate to the Scriptures.
We have come to a Person, therefore, there is no ‘method’ or ‘formula’.
“…if we should ask anything according to His will, He hears us.”
If a person thinks that ‘healing in the Atonement’ means that God will always heal, in the same way that He always forgives the repentant believing saint, is to believe a fallacy.
Again, i would say that the LORDSHIP of Christ over a person is the only real issue here. When they are obeying and serving Him in faith then they need not worry about anything preventing them finishing their work.
December 25, 2008 at 1:03 am
Another of my comments from charisma:
Hi John,
For sure, many have persistently held on and kept pushing in for healing and have received healing.
Thank God that our salvation is not appropriated like that, that we don’t have to wait for God to answer whether He is going to forgive us or not.
When believers saw Paul’s eye disease he didn’t say to them, “I am healed..” ,
he said, ” I beseeched the Lord to heal me 3 times and He said, No”.
This is an example for us of how to face the reality of this life.
Paul’s first reaction was to try and get rid of the sickness ( so Paul is nit a cessationist type person).
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Jesus also bore our griefs and carried our sorrows (Isaiah 53). Does that mean we will have no grief or sorrow in this life?
But see how Paul considered his sickness, and his griefs, sorrows and pains , he didn’t allow them to subvert Jesus’ LORDSHIP over his life. He just kept ‘movin on’ in faith anyway.
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For sure there were reasons Paul’s prayer was not answered, he stated that, but it was not due to pride, it was to keep him from falling into pride:
For if I should desire to boast, I will not be foolish; for I will speak the truth. But I spare you, lest anyone consider me to be beyond what he sees me to be or hears something from me. And lest I exalt myself above measure by the excellence of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, that it might beat me, lest I exalt myself above measure. Concerning this I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in calamities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For whenever I am weak, then I am strong.
(2Cor 12:6-10)
The ‘reasons’ in the above for God withholding healing in this case:
a) …lest anyone consider me to be beyond what he sees me to be or hears something from me
b) …And lest I exalt myself above measure by the excellence of the revelations
c) …for My power is perfected in weakness” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
a question someone asked Quote:
So if there is no particular hinderance then does that mean God will heal everybody in that context?
Good to note that in Paul’s case the “hindrance” was not a lack of faith. Certainly, lack of faith can be a hindrance, and there can be many hindrances, known only to God. Why do we NEED to know?
Our sorrows and griefs were also borne by our LORD Jesus and this is part of the Atonement.
If a Christian ever has sorrow or grief is it due to them not having enough faith in the Atonement?
December 25, 2008 at 3:23 am
And what IF God says, “No” ? What is our reaction to Him then? Our response to that will reveal the depth of our relationship to Him: either, we loved Him unconditionally, or, we loved Him conditionally, on the proviso that we got everything we wanted.
Now, we are finally getting to the application of this subject.
December 27, 2008 at 9:39 am
By His Stripes Are We Healed? by: Gary Nystrom
There is a popular teaching today, especially amongst Pentecostals and Charismatics, that Christ on the cross took upon Himself all our diseases and, subsequently, all physically afflicted believers, through the exercise of personal faith in this “truth,” may realize a divine healing. However, what must be honestly and seriously considered is if this teaching is Biblically based or not.
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for TEACHING, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work” (Tim. 3:16-17).
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Does Scripture support the doctrine that at the cross Christ took upon Himself our diseases to the effect that if a Christian conjures up enough faith or the right faith-formula the reality of Christ’s work on the cross will be invoked and he will be healed of physical afflictions? Let’s take a look:
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The Scriptural basis for this doctrine is the well known Isaiah chapter 53, verse four:
4 “Surely our griefs (or, sickness) He Himself bore, and our sorrows (or, pain) He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
An Apostolic Teaching?
Interestingly, only Matthew references Isa. 53:4 and it is important to recognize that he applies it not to Christ’s suffering and atoning death on the cross, but only to His healing ministry to national Israel (see Matt. 8:17).
Isaiah 53 starts out by describing One who was to grow up before God like a tender shoot, not stately or attractive, despised and forsaken, a man of sorrows (pains) and acquainted with grief (sickness). Still describing this One he goes on to say in verse four, “surely our griefs (sicknesses, with which this One was acquainted) He Himself bore.”
Matthew, when referencing verse four, employs the Greek word “bastazo” for “bore.” It means to carry as a burden, such as to bear one another’s burdens. And so Matthew is saying that Jesus, according to His mercy and the power of God, being acquainted with Israel’s sicknesses, and as their Messiah (see Lk. 7:18-23), healed their sick and demon-possessed (Matt. 8:16-17). No mention of this being a work of atonement on Christ’s cross.
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Biblical Facts:
1. None of the N.T. writers reference Isa. 53:4 to the atoning work of Christ on the cross.
2. Luke does not reference Isa. 53:4 as being fulfilled when Paul healed many Gentiles on his missionary journeys.
3. None of the writers of the New Testament Epistles teach the doctrine that Christ took upon Himself our diseases on the cross and, subsequently, based on this act, by faith, we may claim physical healings.
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Isaiah’s Suffering Servant
Isaiah does not address the DEATH of the suffering Servant until verse five:
5 “But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.”
Here Isaiah states that He was pierced through “for our transgressions” and “crushed for our iniquities.”
“But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him” (vs.6b)
This is atonement language. It is dealing with transgressions and iniquities. Disease is not the issue nor is it mentioned.
A Guilt Offering
“But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself a guilt offering.” (vs. 10a)
A “guilt offering” has to do with sins, not disease. Unlike sin, disease is not a moral issue between man and God requiring the death of His Son.
“Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors” (vs. 12b).
The sacrificial death of Christ dealt with man’s sins. “For the wages of sin is death.” Some may acquire disease because of a sinful lifestyle, however, it is sin that separates man from God, not disease:
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23).
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners (not diseased ones), Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8).
Scripture reveals it was reconciliation with God that was provided for the sinner through Christ’s work on the cross:
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled we shall be saved by His life” (Rom. 5:8-10).
It is sin that made Adam’s posterity “ungodly” – not disease. His shed blood justifies the ungodly through faith and guarantees our safekeeping from the future wrath of God.
The Consequence…Not The Cause
Disease is a consequence of man’s fall in the Garden, however, nowhere is it Biblically taught that man’s diseases were atoned for through the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ. His death and shed blood were to adjudicate the moral issue centered around man’s sinful state acquired through Adam and the individual’s personal sins.
“..and He Himself bore our sins (not diseases) in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His stripes we are healed” (1 Pet. 2:24).
Notice Peter references “by His stripes we are healed” to “sin” and the believer subsequently living to righteousness. According to Scripture, physical healings are not based on the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, but on the power/will of God according to His grace/mercy. That is why when sinners believe in Christ they are, at that time, pardoned forever of sins but are not instantly healed of all diseases.
Miraculous healings and other miracles attested to the veracity of the Apostolic message after the ascension of Christ, but the Apostolic message never taught Christ bore our diseases on the cross.
Muddy the Waters
A popular talk radio host, Hank Hanegraaff, often repeats an adage that “healing was in the atonement but not guaranteed.” Two immediate problems that arise from his cliche are (1) by that statement, though Mr. Hanegraaff does not teach that Christ bore or diseases on the cross, nevertheless, he agrees with the erroneous notion that disease is a moral obstacle between God and man requiring the blood sacrifice of Christ which, as shown above, has absolutely no Biblical support; and (2) if one may suggest that healing is “in the atonement” but “not guaranteed,” then why couldn’t one just as easily claim forgiveness of sins is in the atonement but not guaranteed?
Probably Mr. Hanegraaff is suggesting that because of the atonement of Christ God will eventually bring in the eternal state of righteousness where sickness and disease will not exist. This is true. However the absence of physical infirmities in the eternal state is not because “healing was in the atonement,” but because those reconciled to God and redeemed from sin through faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross on their behalf will then be existing in their glorified bodies. A gracious, creative act of God, not a “healing” act of God based on Christ’s atoning blood sacrifice for diseases.
Lastly it should be pointed out that all of Christ’s healings were accomplished before He went to the cross. It is never taught or even suggested in Scripture that Christ was morally righteous to heal Israel’s physical afflictions because the cross was anticipated. He never said to those whom He healed, “your disease has been atoned for.” Nor should we!
Written by: Gary Nystrom
http://www.biblicist.org/bible/healed.shtml
December 28, 2008 at 1:19 am
And looking intently on him, Peter together with John, said “Look at us.” And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive from them. But Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but that which I have, I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, rise and walk.” And taking hold of him by his right hand, he raised him; and immediately his feet and ankle were strengthened.
(Acts 3:4-7)
Acts 3:16 And on the basis of faith in His name, this one whom you observe and know, was made strong by His name. And the faith, which is by Him, has given to him this wholeness before you all.
December 28, 2008 at 4:32 am
And summoning His twelve disciples, He gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every illness. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, who was surnamed Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, commanding them, saying, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
(Mat 10:1-8)
On what basis were they healing the sick? On the basis of the Atonement? No. On the basis of delegated Divine Authority over the natural realm : God has regularly, thru the course of the history of His people, supernaturally overruled His laws of nature. The Atonement did not introduce the miraculous.
As in Acts 3, the basis by which we can experience healing and protection from disease today is by the Name of Jesus. And the authority of Jesus, that is, He personally working thru His people (in His name, as He wills) is authority over all nature. Nothing shall be impossible to Him who believes. If we ask anything according to His will He hears us, and we know we have the things we requested.
It’s important to understand that the Name of Jesus means the express will of Jesus. Therefore, the person who truly prays or acts in the Name of Jesus is acting in response to revelation from Him concerning His specific will in a situation.
It’s this KNOWING Him which is the basis for anything good and holy. “Without me you can do nothing…”
December 31, 2008 at 12:00 am
Have you met ‘Christian Scientists” ? (i mean the cult, not an actual Christian scientist!)
Every one i’ve met has one message: healing and health.
They are obsessed with their own health. Obsessed with their own bodies.
Enter Hagin and crew, who imbibed that same spirit.
As for Paul healing every one? He left Trophymus sick some where, another close brother of his nearly died of exhaustion, and Paul had an eye disease.
Which is why it was BIG of the Galatians to accept him ‘as an angel’ even, bcos they avoided this thinking: “He healed others but he can’t heal himself? Is he a legit Apostle? he can’t heal himself? ”
Again i want to say, it is the LORDSHIP of Christ we should be ‘obsessed’ with, not our own bodies.
If you are believing that it’s great faith which has kept you free from all sickness, then when you get sick, its your EGO which is offended : your bubble is burst, you’re not the great person you thought you were (speaking from my own failings).
January 1, 2009 at 2:21 pm
It may seem like splitting hairs (this subject) but it behooves me to never entertain something which is not true, for Jesus’ sake. Even if some people can’t see the relevance of it.
The Atonement was FOR our sin, not FOR our sicknesses.
YET, bcos our sins have been removed and we are IN Christ, and have a share in His Righteousness, as joint-heirs with Him : on this basis alone, we can have great boldness to believe for health and healing, and protection from the enemy, who has the power to inflict Christians with disease, if he is given place.
Therefore, my basis for believing for health and healing is Christ’s Atonement for my sins (not for my sicknesses) after the fact that God amply revealed in the OT that He desired and promised such for His people.
In the cases where it’s discerned that a person’s sickness is due to their sin, then, it will be a repentance based on faith in Christ’s Atonement for sin which can be the ‘prayer of faith’ to raise the sick (James). In such cases, dealing with the sin can open the door for God to heal.
Also, if the understanding of what “Jesus’ name” means is not there, then confusion is the result. Jesus’ name means Jesus’ specific will. It means the Holy Spirit has specifically led you to pray or command healing.
The ‘answer’ to everything is in believing Jesus atoned for your sins.
January 2, 2009 at 1:09 am
‘When’ sickness relates to personal sin then it is the sin which is the issue, not whether healing is in the Atonement or whether a person has faith for healing.
Not every case of poor health is due to personal sin, naturally.
January 5, 2009 at 8:56 am
Hello Ian!
I saw your post on this topic at the endtimesprophetic blog – a subject I’ve been led to study for the past couple of years. The “bread” of the “children” – healing.
If you have no objection I would like to post your study complete with your comments on another forum http://prophecyfellowship.yuku.com
May God bless you and keep you!
January 5, 2009 at 9:34 am
OK, no worries.
February 1, 2009 at 2:22 am
I didn’t realize that people would not understand the question, thinking that i was doubting whether God heals and protects from disease today, which i wasn’t doubting.
The atonement dealt with our sin and brought us INTO Christ Jesus, into His righteousness as joint heirs.
Therefore, IN this Holy relationship we have been so graciously brought into, there is healing and their is deliverance and everything we need to serve Him faithfully.
With true faith there are no shadows or uncertainties, no double mindedness.
The reason we can have unshakeable faith that we have been , past tense, justified from all our sins, from all the righteous demands of the law, is that the matter was finished, accomplished on the Cross of Calvary.
Such a person, thru faith, HAS the goods, they ARE justified, and they know it, by the Spirit.
We can’t approach the Atonement in the same way for physical healing, as we do for salvation.
If we could, then all we would have to do is believe, “By His stripes I was healed of all my physical diseases”, and we would never ever get any form of illness, and our bodies would not die.
But then people carp, “Ah, you didn’t have real faith!”, if you ever get ill.
My observation, also, is that perhaps most of the people who believe that physical healing is in the atonement do get sick, all certainly die, and sadly, when they are sick they deny the reality of it, which is metaphysics, unreality, as per Christian Science and Hagin et al.
Faith is not a mystery. If it goes beyond child like faith, it’s not faith.
Also, “Christ died and was raised for our justification”.
You can’t be half justified, you either are or you aren’t.
This is bcos Christ fully accomplished this for us by His atonement.
Then, with sickness?? IF healing is part of the Atonement and that is your faith, and then you ever get sick, then you never had faith.
You can’t lapse in and out of justification like that.
Hebrews tells us that if we become unbelieving we are OUT eternally and there’s no way back.
We can’t approach healing that way.
IF Jesus is LORD of our lives and our only desire is to be faithful to Him, serving Him, THEN we have what we need to do that, and health and healing is abundantly supplied.
February 3, 2009 at 12:29 am
“Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you”
What things? Everything you really need to KEEP seeking first the Kingdom and His Righteousness, to live for Him and do His will.
Healing and health are obviously a NEED which, when we really need it, He supplies.
We also need money. So, would i say that Jesus died for my empty wallet, or bank account? That finances are IN the atonement? What about food, is that IN the atonement?
November 25, 2009 at 12:18 am
Simply, Christ died for the sin of all. God commands ALL to repent and believe the gospel. This means that justification/forgiveness and eternal life is only a prayer away for anybody, no matter what condition they are in. God requires that they believe, and anything less is sin. BUT, faith for divine healing can’t possibly be the same as faith for salvation. If a person refuses to believe Christ shed His blood for them, their unbelief is an act of rebellion and extreme unthankfulness. God sees any unbelief regarding His free gift of grace as rebellion. But if you don’t have faith for a miracle does God see it as rebellion? Certainly not. AND, if we make healing equal in the atonement with forgiveness of sins, then it would be sin to be sick, bcos you would be unbelieving, right? Which is sin.
Healing flows from the atonement for sin. Sin was the problem. Sin was atoned for, not sickness. Yet, ANYTHING which comes from God today comes VIA His atonement on Calvary. amen.
God promised health to the Israelites if they would obey Him [Deut 28 and several other passages], and this also should be believed today. He also promised wealth. Jesus promised God’s provision to us.. seek first the Kingdom and all these things shall be added. These are clear promises we need to believe.
Jesus never got sick bcos He was/is sinless. I’m diverging a bit here, but it’s worth considering where sickness originally comes from.
Salvation is a gift to all, it is THE gift, the gift of The Son, that’s why it’s not mentioned in the gifts of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 12. Healing is also a gift, yet, unlike salvation, there is a “gift of healing”. This means it is a provision separate from salvation, as all the other gifts are.
November 26, 2009 at 12:51 am
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
We’ve ‘obtained’ our faith, received it somehow from God, and it is ‘like precious’ – equal in it’s nature/quality.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith…
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
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Someone wrote:
These words are interpreted differently by different people. There IS a war, indeed. I want to understand it and do it as per our LORD Jesus and His apostles understood it and did, which is very different to the way it’s understood by many today.
E.g. Our LORD didn’t cast territorial spirits out, nor did He bind them or come against them in anyway. As the Father led Him he precisely cast out demons, but only from those who wanted to be free.
When our LORD was directly faced with the hindering plans and intent of satan He exerted His authority and pushed him aside, like the temptation in the wilderness, and when Peter tried to convince not to go the cross.
Myself, when i discern the enemy hindering or trying to spoil the plan of God in my life or in those i’m praying for, i directly address him in Jesus name and command him to desist and move aside, and break his plans. And i’ve seen the power of God on our behalf time and time again, this way.
But this is different to having a ‘demon consciousness’, a fixation with them.
On ‘the shield of faith’ over ‘every fiery dart of the enemy’ : we barely know the importance of our faith for protection. We know that for God’s elect, it IS satan’s desire to destroy us physically and to destroy our faith. He would love to kill you. Nothing would give him more pleasure. What’s stopping him doing that? The power of God on our behalf. It’s a miracle, a demonstration of power and grace that we live even one day in this evil world. We need to be wise.
November 28, 2009 at 2:14 am
We, like so many others, have seen countless answers to prayer; healings which are supernatural, not the normal natural healing of the body (which is also very much a miracle bcos it IS by the hand of God; we should marvel at everything He has designed, made and does for our benefit).
Are we deluded to believe that the Father answered our prayers? For me, to deny all those answers to prayer, would be as bad as homosexuality or murder, it would be wicked unbelief.
Aren’t ’small miracles’ really a test for Christians? When they can’t see the hand of God in a ’small healing’ or a ’small miracle’ then surely they won’t believe when anything ’spectacular’ happens before their eyes.
I think there’s a reason for God withholding, at times, the ‘spectacular’ miracles. I believe the spiritual person will understand.
We don’t classify ANYTHING that the Father does as ‘spectacular’ or ‘less spectacular’ ; major or minor miracles. We try to appreciate and acknowledge EVERY expression of His grace and power, as equal, as it flows from Him.
In fact, i believe it’s the unbelieving person who is only impressed by ‘spectacular’ miracles and can’t see the wonder of God’s hand in everything.
December 1, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Posted this on M’kayla’s blog, but it really was in response to this post regarding the ‘small’ miracles.
“Everything He does is good and perfect. Sometimes the small gestures that assure me He is watching over us are the ones that so deeply touch my heart. Comfort in times of pain. Patience in times of trial. The little things that remind us how completely He knows us.”
December 2, 2009 at 12:42 am
Amen, sister!
With God there is nothing small or big. He upholds all things by the word of his power:
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high…
No wonder our LORD Jesus was so grieved by people’s unbelief and their request for signs.
They can’t see the supernatural hand of God created nature and them and supports and nourishes and upholds every living thing. That’s not enough evidence??
When we acknowledge every work of the Father then believing in miracles is easy, just a matter of fact.
December 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm
The brightness of His glory. This is Jesus. And the context is what He has done in purging us of our sins!! Puts all the ‘glory seeking’ hoopla to shame.
Praise Him!!
December 3, 2009 at 5:18 am
Amen!
Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from you. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation SEEKS AFTER a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, BUT the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Mat 12:38-40)
December 11, 2009 at 7:34 am
When the evening came, they brought unto him many that were possessed with demons: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, He himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses.
(Mat 8:16-17)
Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy from Isaiah PRIOR to the Atonement on the Cross.
He ‘took’ and ‘bore’ their sicknesses BEFORE His crucifixion, ..that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet.
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Matthew Henry:
July 5, 2011 at 11:33 am
healing is in the Atonement,if u claim that Jesus only healed b4 the atonement in accordance to prophets isaiahs prophesy,i want to let you know that Jesus di forgive sins before the Atonement but for both sin and healing to be complete,Jesus had to die,peter confirmed healing in the atonement saying by whose stripes u have been healed so where did Jesus get those stripes? was it not through the atonement jst as he was wounded and bruised for our iniquity.saying that healing is not in the atonement is unbiblical bcos Jesus christ is the same yesterday and today and forever
July 5, 2011 at 12:06 pm
Hi Ishaya, and welcome to my blog!
Let me say that i used to believe that healing is in the atonement for years, and that i don’t think it’s too serious an error, but it can lead to extreme abuses.
To put it simply, if healing were in the atonement, then healing would be manifest and experienced as often as salvation is.
Why is that all true believers in Jesus experience the forgiveness of their sins, but don’t always experience healing all the time, even though they DO BELIEVE in healing and DO PRAY IN FAITH?
Sure, Jesus said that faith is absolutely indispensable, yet is the reason that not all believers are healed all the time bcos they lack faith? Is it really that, all the time? If healing were in the atonement THEN it would be a simple matter that most born-again people just don’t have enough faith for healing.
It’s hard for me to believe, then, that the majority of the Body of Christ has defective or weak faith, and that’s why they are not always instantly healed, or why they even get sick to begin with.
If you believe that healing is in the atonement, then that’s the logical conclusion : that anytime a believer gets sick it’s bcos they lack faith. (and this is where a belief in healing in the atonement can lead to abuses and shipwrecked fath)
If receiving healing were EXACTLY the same as receiving forgiveness, then surely every believer (who believes Jesus heals) would be healed, and healed instantly every time they ask in faith, and they would never get a cold, nothing..
Yes, Jesus heals and we can have strong confidence to come to Him for healing, in the same way that people came to Him BEFORE the atonement and were healed.
The LORD bless you!
July 5, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Another fundamental difference between receiving forgiveness and healing is that you don’t actually have to wait for God to answer the prayer, “Forgive me LORD Jesus” ; for your faith is counted as righteousness. You don’t have to wait and see whether God forgives you or not, after you prayed. THAT is bcos of the atonement for sins.
But when you pray for healing you wait for the answer, right?
July 5, 2011 at 10:23 pm
How can believing that healing is in the atonement lead to shipwrecked faith?
Bcos the genuine born-again believer who is sick and dying, who prays night and day for their healing and yet isn’t healed : if they believe that healing is in the atonement then the only possible reason they are not healed is bcos they lack faith. Therefore, they conclude that their faith is defective and God doesn’t recognize their faith, and THAT would be a false conclusion.
July 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I wholly agree with this post, including the excellent example of Paul’s thorn in the flesh.
This is my favorite line, however, as I believe it strikes at the heart of what is necessary for healing to take place–for the only power we have, as saints, is the power to come into agreement with God–and therefore, we must know Him and act according to His specific direction in any specific, situation:
Ian wrote, “It’s important to understand that the Name of Jesus means the express will of Jesus. Therefore, the person who truly prays or acts in the Name of Jesus is acting IN RESPONSE TO REVELATION FROM HIM CONCERNING HIS SPECIFIC WILL IN A SITUATION.”
Amen!
July 7, 2011 at 3:28 am
Thanks bro, amen.
A simple answer to this matter is this: Jesus made atonement for our sins. So, in the cases where our sickness is THE DIRECT RESULT OF OUR SIN, then repentance and appropriating His atonement for our sin (His Blood) can lead to us being healed of that specific sickness. Bcos atonement has been made for sins, then the sickness which is the result of sin can be healed as a benefit of that atonement for sin. (Of course, this doesn’t preclude Jesus healing ANY sickness, no matter the cause)
James suggests this:
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall deliver the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he has committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
(James 5:14-15)
July 7, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Verses 14-15 seem to focus upon the power of intercession by holy men on the behalf of another.
The next verse seems to focus upon the power of public testimony [confession of sins] and the need for body ministry as part of the process of repentance, healing, and restoration:
“Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”
This verse shows a clear connection between confession of sins and healing [whether the healing is needed in the soul or body].
March 2, 2013 at 5:07 am
Bump
April 20, 2013 at 2:41 am
Update: Jesus made atonement for our sin and not our sicknesses, and yet there are many blessings which flow from His atonement for our sins, such as well-being, health, healing and protection from the evil one.
Out of all the saints of God in history who truly believed that Jesus atoned for their sins we can say that all of them came under His atonement and were perfectly forgiven of their sins.
Out of this same number, at a guess perhaps 95% of them died of some kind of sickness or disease.
There are a significant number of saints who just pass away with no sickness or suffering, and there are also many wicked people who also remain in good health and pass away without any sickness.
And among Christians who say they believe in healing in the Atonement, most of them die of sickness.
Most of the greatest healing evangelists died of sickness.
Some of them died never actually admitting they are sick, cos they believe that is a lack of faith to admit you are sick, which is silly.
So if healing or health is appropriated on EXACTLY the same basis as forgiveness of sins is appropriated by the Atonement, the finished work of Christ, then that would mean that 95% of believers who ever lived had defective faith, or somehow believed wrong.
This would be hard to believe, that the majority of Christ’s Bride had defective faith.
I could believe that many had wrong teachings, yes, but not 95%.
We appropriate forgiveness on the basis that we believe we were forgiven on the Cross of Calvary, it is finished.
We can appropriate healing by asking God to heal in Jesus name, according to His promises, and according to the benefits flowing from the Atonement.
When you ask God to forgive you bcos of the Atonement you don’t need to wait for an answer: it is done.
We can’t approach healing that same way. Oftentimes we need to wait for an answer.
It is always God’s will that men repent, believe and be forgiven. That can be said to be true for any person living on the earth.
But the same can’t automatically be said for just anyone concerning healing.
God may have reasons for not healing a person.
But if healing were in the Atonement then there would be no obstacle and all people would receive healing just as immediately as they receive God’s forgiveness the moment they believe on Jesus.