A great multitude

Revelation chapters 6,7 & 8.  A certain number of Jews are sealed on the earth (so that they won’t be harmed) then a great multitude from every nation is taken up into heaven out of the great tribulation, that is, before the real wrath of God is poured out on the earth, and one third of it destroyed.

10 Responses to “A great multitude”

  1. ian vincent Says:

    Some say this multitude are martyrs.

    Bcos the number of the multitude is so great, too many to count, it’s not likely they are martyrs, IMO, for that would mean the majority of the Body of Christ, the church, gets killed.

    Also, martyrs are mentioned in the previous chapter, ch 6, as being under the altar, and not, standing in front of the throne :

    Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    Another reason i don’t think they are martyrs is the designation from every language group, which signifies the time we’re living in now, as the gospel goes to the last remaining language groups in our generation, so, this multitude doesn’t seem to be the redeemed of all ages, or the martyrs of all ages, rather seems to be the end time church taken out.

    Another thing which struck me as significant is the way, in ch 7, that the two companies of people are contrasted, a company of Jews, which can be numbered, and a company of Gentiles, which can’t be numbered; one company on the earth and one in heaven. Why the contrast? To me it looks like they’re juxtaposed bcos there has been a separation, and the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled.

    I recommend read slowly chapters 5 thru 9, which is the chronology of the opening of the seven seals. This is a section, a part, within the whole, a chronology, sequence of events. The ‘rapture’ takes place in ch 7, after the 6th seal is opened, and 6 is the number of man.

    If anyone’s interested in labels they could stick the label ‘pre-wrath rapture’ on this one.

    An early rapture would be wonderful, but let’s be ready for any outcome.

    ———————————————

    It’s ironic that so many cults believe themselves to be the 144,000, yet it’s the great multitude from every nation taken up into heaven who are MORE BLESSED, at that time.

    ———————————————

    The “third part” of the earth is destroyed. Why one third?

    There are three in heaven who bear witness 1 John 5:7. The Son is rejected by the world, a third part, so only fitting a third part of the earth and humanity be destroyed.

  2. mkayla Says:

    I’ve also wondered about the great multitude of people being the raptured church. Revelation is such an intriguing book.

    ;)

  3. ian vincent Says:

    This is my response to a rant which said that the ‘pre-trib’ rapture is a deception of the devil:

    It seems like striving over words to no profit. God could require any of our souls at any moment, we all live on the edge of eternity. Therefore, the call is to be ready, whether the rapture is 1 year off or 10 years off.

    It also seems to not take into account the history of the church age, how much our brethren have suffered and even now suffer for the sake of Jesus name. It would be naive to think, when persecution comes, even being martyred, that this is some new thing and is therefore THE sign that the rapture is only months or years away. It’s only ‘new’ to those insulated from reality and ignorant of history. So. Indeed, the thought that the church will be raptured before great persecution comes is naive.

    Every believer down thru the ages has had to be ready to flee to the mountains at any time, and many did, like the Waldensians into the alps.

    The pre-wrath theory is different to the pre-trib theory.

  4. ian vincent Says:

    Indeed, much teaching that comes out of America is ‘Amero-centric‘ , that is, it wrongly places America at the CENTER of the purposes of God and ignores the church worldwide or the perspective of the history of the church. E.g. Many saints see the things happening in America and then equate it universally, as if the end of America signals the end of the world. Not so, it only signals the end of America : kingdoms rise and fall.

    If the average American Christian could be transported back to the Spanish Inquisition, or back to Nero’s or Caligula’s Rome, would they think, This is it! This is the end! This means the rapture is any day now! ? Yes, we all could think that, if our understanding is only based on our life experience and if the Word of God is not the ultimate arbitrator.

  5. mkayla Says:

    This is what I’ve been screamin’ too. Just because America is in meltdown, whether or not we actually lose this country remains to be seen, but if so, it does not mean it is the end of time as we know it.

    Still, people in other countries act as tho America is the great rudder for the rest of the world as some Americans believe the state of California is the rudder for America. They think it’s actions and decisions will impact everyone else. Maybe some, but not all. I don’t know. I think there is too much importance put on this one very young country.

  6. ian vincent Says:

    Thanks sister. I believe America is important in the scheme of how end-time events will pan out, especially in regards to her relationship to Israel, but it’s not the center.

    Another example of what i’m (we’re) saying: So many have prophesied a great cataclysm coming soon for America: desolation economically and by nuclear war or terrorism. I also believe that God has forewarned His church regarding these things to come, but, THEN, they take it one step further and reason that if such a cataclysm is to take place then that MUST mean that the rapture will take place also at that time, so that the saints are taken out just as nuclear holocaust erupts. See, that would be interpreting Bible prophecy solely according to the fate of America, as if everything revolves around her.

  7. ian vincent Says:

    Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the wrath of God.
    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.


    Is this the same group as these?
    :

    Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four living creatures, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshiped God,
    Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen.
    Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, Who are these who are arrayed in white robes? and from where did they come?
    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they who came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sits on the throne shall dwell among them.

  8. ian vincent Says:

    Luk 21:5 And as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and gifts, he said,
    Luk 21:6 As for these things which you behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
    Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Teacher, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
    Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that you be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draws near: go not therefore after them.
    Luk 21:9 But when you shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not yet.
    Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
    Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in various places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
    Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.
    Luk 21:13 And it shall turn out to you for a testimony.
    Luk 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand what you shall answer:
    Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to contradict nor resist.
    Luk 21:16 And you shall be betrayed both by parents, and brothers, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
    Luk 21:17 And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.
    Luk 21:18 But there shall not a hair of your head perish.
    Luk 21:19 In your patience you will gain your souls.
    Luk 21:20 And when you shall see Jerusalem surrounded with armies, then know that its desolation is near.
    Luk 21:21 Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them who are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter into it.
    Luk 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
    Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that nurse children, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
    Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    (Up to verse 24 was fulfilled in AD70. Then, Christian Jews did heed our LORD’s words and fled Jerusalem prior to it’s sacking and were safe. The Jews who stayed were crucified or were taken captive as slaves, just as Jesus said they would. Then the prophecy skips directly to the end of the Gentile age, to where we are now.)

    Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Luk 21:26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking toward those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near.
    Luk 21:29 And he spoke to them a parable; Look at the fig tree, and all the trees;
    Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, you see and know of your own selves that summer is now near at hand.
    Luk 21:31 So likewise you, when you see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is near at hand.
    Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be weighed down with carousing, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
    Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    Luk 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    (Rev 7:9-10)

    Luk 21:37 And in the daytime he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
    Luk 21:38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, to hear him.

  9. boldncourageous Says:

    So much speculation!

    We are told who the great multitude are in Rev. 7:14

    However if you are reading the NIV you will miss it, because of a translation error!

    The word “Come” in Rev. 7:14 has a verb tense that is foreign to the English language. That is, it is “present and imperfect”. (see the strong’s) Present tense is common in English but imperfect is foreign. If you’ve know or have taken Spanish, you know there is a past imperfect tense, and it takes some understanding to grasp it’s meaning if you speak English as a first language.

    We (English speakers as a first language) know what present tense is, but the NIV uses the word “came” which makes the verb past tense and the translation incorrect.

    The imperfect tense means “ongoing” and so when added the “now” of the present tense, it makes the verb tense to mean ‘presently ongoing’. So if Noah spoke English to his wife he might say to his wife while the animals were loading into the boat, “The animals come two by two into the boat.” This satisfies the present imperfect tense if the meaning is that this event is currently happening. Another way of presenting this tense is to use, “are coming”… The animals are coming two by two… To say ‘have come’, ‘came’, or ‘has come’ changes the verb tense.

    the KJV states, “Which come”. This is a correct translation, however it can be read to twist its meaning. It must be interpreted as happening now and continuing to happen to maintain the appropriate verb tense form. If at any time it is referred to as ‘has come’ or ‘have come’ or did already come, it does not.

    So who are those who are the great multitude as John and the elder discuss? They are those who are coming out of the great tribulation. Their numbers are incomplete. We also know that those martyred in the fifth seal, their numbers are ALSO incomplete. They are indeed coming out of great tribulation, because they are not loving their lives to the death.

    The very context of the scripture tells us that the martyrs of the 5th seal and the great multitude are one in the same.

    To say that the ‘great multitude’ of Rev. 7:9 is raptured people is to add to this book and puts one’s self in danger of receiving the plagues of it Rev. 22:18.

    Be careful that no man deceive you Matt. 24:4! The pre-trib doctrine is always taught by man! At no time can it be found in the book of Revelations… it must be added into it!

    John 16:33 “These things I tell you that in Me, you may have peace. In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

  10. ian vincent Says:

    God bless u 2!

    The tribulation is nearly over by the time we get to the 6th seal so it could not be called a pre-tribulation rapture but a pre-wrath one.

    Your Interpretation means virtually the whole church is martyred. Many will be but not the majority.

    In the Greek NT all dialogue is written in the present tense.

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