Oral Roberts has passed away

marking the end of an era. He was one of the original prime-movers of the ‘Word of Faith’ movement [WOF].

Regarding the ‘health gospel’ :

If a believer can believe God for good health, i say, More power to ya! Why should anyone resent that? It’s only wrong when believers go BEYOND that, and feel puffed up that they have special faith, and start teaching that Christians shouldn’t ever get sick, and if so, they are weak in faith, that they’ve sinned, etc…

The ‘persecution’ works both ways. If i gave examples of ‘my faith’ for my own life, and what God has done, i could have people jumping on me with all sorts of labels and accusations. What do you make of it when a person, who is bitten by malaria mosquitoes regularly for 12 years and never gets malaria, even though many all around are getting it? Scientifically impossible? Yes. But if God gives him the faith for that, then it is possible. Am i proud to mention that? Maybe i should keep it a secret. :) No. Why should i be ashamed of the power of God? Or of His goodness and kindness to me?

I’m against WOF, but i’m also against the other extreme.

8 Responses to “Oral Roberts has passed away”

  1. mkayla Says:

    I think a very good point in this is to help people understand the lie of wof and biblical truth in healing as your story points out.

  2. ian vincent Says:

    Yes, sister.

    I think when it comes to faith, we are sometimes fickle people, who can easily misunderstand what faith is. Just remembering the times when i thought, or felt, like i had the faith that God had answered a certain prayer when He had not, and then i realized that the ‘faith’ i was ‘feeling’ was in my emotions or soul – something i had worked up. So, when we ‘go ahead’ of God and don’t seek His will, then there’s a counterfeit faith we can have. True faith can only be in the revealed will of God.

    And this is one of the problems with WOF. Our faith must be rooted in a yielded life to the LORD Jesus, yielded in love. WOF is about covetousness and grasping, not about yielding to and serving the LORD. Wanting the things He can give, but not wanting Him.

    When we think about our saving faith, our faith in the LORD Jesus, then we realize that our faith is something rock-solid, immovable. It’s not a feeling that comes and goes, it’s who we are now, bcos we have believed from the heart.

    With the fact that the LORD has protected me from malaria, miraculously (as well as from many other things) ; i don’t have faith like a WOF-er does. I don’t neurotically ‘confess’ all the scriptures on healing over and over. Rather, i try to daily acknowledge whatever i have received from the LORD and maintain a deep, heart-felt gratitude, never ceasing to give Him thanks and praise. I think it’s genuine thankfulness which keeps my faith ‘alive’. We can only thank God for what we have received, not for what we have not received.

    ————————————————–

    I don’t believe it’s God’s perfect will for a believer to be sick. If it was His perfect will, then that’s what we should seek after and believe for: we should be asking God to make us sick so that we can be in His perfect will.

    And,when we are sick, for whatever reason, what are we going to do? Will we pray, LORD I accept this sickness as your perfect will, so don’t heal me. ?

    We are fickle people.

    If you are servant of the LORD Jesus Christ, a preacher of His gospel, then it is most certainly the devil’s ‘perfect will’ that you be sick and die very soon. We should not be ignorant of this. We should keep the shield of faith whereby all the fiery darts of the enemy are quenched.

  3. ruthsongs Says:

    “it’s only wrong when believers go BEYOND that, and feel puffed up that they have special faith, and start teaching that Christians shouldn’t ever get sick, and if so, they are weak in faith, that they’ve sinned, etc…”

    I think that’s where we go astray. It can so quickly become about us, and it’s coming out of the lack of relationship – a topic we touch on here on your blog. If I know you know me and you see me on my good days and bad, and we are living real life with each other, then my testimony of what God has done for me will be about God’s faithfulness, not my great faith. But if my fellowship is only superficial or I’m someone on TV or somehow unreachable, then I become some kind of unreal icon that can be adored and esteemed from a distance and it all gets weird real fast, cuz then I can puff myself up and no one will call me on it.

    If we face serious hard times economically/government control, persecution, etc, in the future, the real will get more real and the fake will get more fake and the dividing lines will be distinct.. so if it comes to that, I guess we will be thankful on some levels (and some of the fickle will be addressed).

    I agree, left to ourselves, we are fickle/double minded.

  4. ian vincent Says:

    my testimony of what God has done for me will be about God’s faithfulness, not my great faith.

    AMEN!

    The complication is when you tell ‘what God has done for me‘ and Christians get angry and upset to hear it, as if you’re accusing them of having no faith.

    the real will get more real and the fake will get more fake and the dividing lines will be distinct..

    And AMEN!

    ————————————————-

    When the likes of Billy Graham gush over Oral Roberts in their obituaries you have to wonder how they so quickly divorce themselves from reality, such as the threats for money – extortion, the 900 ft Jesus etc…. The world knows and honors it’s own.

  5. ian vincent Says:

    Health and healing are such BIG subjects that i think it’s impossible to write a definitive summary of the subject in one article or even one book, as there are so many things to take into consideration.

    The best we can do, and should do, is to state the applicable truths, point by point, and put all the truths together. That way there’s a chance of getting the whole picture, rather than a fragment.

    The immature will agree with a few of the points and reject the points which make them uncomfortable, which don’t fit their limited understanding of God, whereas the mature will take on the whole counsel of God.

    —————————————————

    On health. If we could get statistics from heaven, i wonder what would be the number of the disciples of Jesus who’ve been kept well and in service to the LORD by the power of the Holy Spirit, by grace? When, on the natural level, they should have got sick and died, BUT for God’s grace? Probably millions. But we tend to overlook that fact and not give God the glory. In our lives, if God’s grace and care had not prevailed, then the enemy would have inflicted us with so much to prevent us preaching the gospel.

    Some disciples are just a wonder to the unbelieving. Like Paul. Yes, he had an eye disease of some sort, but he kept going anyway, traveling the known world with the gospel. How can a sick man do that? And when he was stoned and assumed dead, when the saints came and stood around him, this ‘dead’ man, who was frail with age, whose body was bashed to a pulp, just got up and walked away……. It’s a wonder. It doesn’t fit most people’s ‘theology’.

    And there came there certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. However, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
    (Act 14:19-20)

    —————————————————–

    On the subject of the mystery of the will of God in these matters: Since i’ve been born-again, nearly every time i’ve been sick (which is not many times*) the LORD clearly showed me that He was disciplining me as a son bcos i had disobeyed Him. I gladly accepted His discipline, bcos He made it clear as to why, and the fruit of repentance was there. A true son never resents the just dealings of his Father.

    I greatly rejoice that He loved me enough to discipline me when i sinned. When i remember all of his judgments in my life i exceedingly rejoice! Only the one’s He loves does He rebuke and discipline (Rev. 3:19) [ disciple = discipline ]

    I had also, bcos of sin, lowered the shield of faith.

    Now, i’m allowed to say this. I can’t speak for another, but i can speak for myself. :)

    And, if in giving true testimony, some Christians get angry, so be it. What, are they jealous or something? Surely, if you see the LORD doing something in a person’s life, you would want to come alongside them and rejoice with them, instead of resenting the power of God evident in their life?

    ( * Before i was converted and filled with the Holy Spirit i would always get a cold or flu, whenever it was going around. Then, after my conversion that natural consequence stopped. Why? My diet is no better, probably worse than before. And these last 12 years in India we have not had an adequate balanced diet. Plenty of rice, though. :) )

    ———————————————-

    If i’m going to err, let me err on the side of faith, and the power of God.

    ————————————————-

    I know your works, and love, and service, and faith, and your patience, and your works; and the last to be more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her time to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a [ sick ] bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    (Rev 2:19-23)

    ————————————————–

    Which aspects of Christianity today accurately reflect who Jesus is?

    I mean, does the fact that modern Christianity has become apostate, reflect on Jesus? Does it mean that He has failed, or let them down? Does apostasy in Jesus name reveal the perfect will of Jesus?

    I mean, if i were to let modern Christianity define the truth for me, and if the experience of the majority of Christians became the rule i lived by, i would be very confused.

    I’m trying to get to the root of this reasoning.

    It’s good to know what truth/truths we will live by.

  6. ian vincent Says:

    Is the LORD Jesus Christ busy, going to multitudes of Christian homes, and afflicting them with sickness? If so many believers are sick, in the perfect will of God, then Jesus must be very busy inflicting so much sickness? He is full-time making Christians sick, but He can’t heal, or protect them from sickness?

    And, if it’s the devil who is causing Christians to get sick and die prematurely, then why does Jesus hand them over to the devil for that?

    Or, do we just chalk it up to fate, believe in fatalism, like Hindus? Bad karma coming round? Everything is fate? There is no rhyme or reason? God could strike you down today with sickness just arbitrarily, with no other reason than it’s His good pleasure to do so?

    Or, is it all natural? You are what you eat?

  7. ian vincent Says:

    When people sneeze their flu germs over me , why don’t i get the flu? I can’t remember when i last had the flu, over 20 years ago.

    When the malaria carrying mosquitoes bite me, why don’t i get malaria?

    (I’m not some freak, i’m a normal person who used to get sick regularly before i was filled with the Holy Spirit)

    Getting sick is normal. Of course it doesn’t always mean we’ve sinned. If you can believe for supernatural protection/health so that you are able to preach the gospel, and serve God’s people, then praise God. Not everyone can believe that.

    We should live for the glory of God. If someone is not living for His glory, how can His real power be in their life? He won’t give supernatural dunamis to Christians who just live for themselves, for their own whims and entertainment, nor will He give it to be sold, merchandised and prostituted.

    Just on the matter of a Christian suffering sickness, thinking God gave them the sickness so that He will be glorified. Then, if they really believe that, they better not pray for healing. They better not seek relief, otherwise they would be fighting against the purpose of God. If God wants them sick – BUT they want to be healed – then there’s a rift, a conflict there, yes? If you really believed that Jesus gave you the sickness for His glory then you would not seek healing, you would accept the sickness as His gift to you. You can’t be accepting this ‘gift of disease’ and then be asking Him to take away this ‘gift’.

    True, IF we are sick, and IF we trust the LORD and not worry, and not complain, but glorify Him, THEN He is glorified. If i got sick today, that’s what i would do, AND i would ask Him to heal and request others to pray :

    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall deliver the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he has committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
    (James 5:14-15)

    What is the gist of this teaching? If you get sick, IMMEDIATELY call for the elders to come and pray for you. Don’t wallow in it. Don’t think you’re suffering for God’s glory. No. Immediately call for the elders. Meaning: don’t accept the sickness. This is a general exhortation, a general rule.

    (We’ve found that, in these times, it’s hard to get believers to obey this scripture. Maybe it’s pride, or self-dependency, i don’t know.)

    ( …and IF he has committed sins… : meaning: the sickness could be caused by sin, but not necessarily. The believer would know if that was the case, and repent, having gladly received the LORD’s discipline)

    This is what we do over here. Believers are exhorted to call for the elders, immediately, when there’s something serious. The sick should call. We shouldn’t go chasing after them to lay on hands if they don’t believe they can be healed. Still care for them, yes.

    —————————————————-

    Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

    What is the nature of the fiery darts our faith can prevent hitting us?

    All manner of wicked schemes and temptations of the enemy. Not just against our minds, but against our bodies.

    The devil DOES afflict people with diseases. He has the power to do it. He certainly has the desire to do it to those who are preaching the gospel, who are witnesses to Christ. Disease is one of the fiery darts launched against us.

    If disease is a fiery dart launched from satan, from demons, then your faith can stop it striking you.

    Our faith is ** IN ** our fellowship with the Father and the Son, by the Spirit. Our faith ‘shield’ is not a physical ‘thing’, it’s a heart trust, in love. My shield is up when i’m walking with Jesus, in the Spirit. I’m not self-aware i have a shield, i’m only aware of His glory, for HE is my shield : Psalm 18:2, 28:7, 119:114, 144:2.

    Whereas, WOF teaching is that the ‘shield of faith’ is something you generate yourself thru repeating Scriptures over and over. The real shield is a relationship.

    But, even in that Holy relationship, if, when satan’s fiery arrows come against you, you were deceived into believing that satan’s work was actually a gift from God, then your faith in that area would be dead and ineffectual.

  8. ian vincent Says:

    1Co 11:27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    1Co 11:29 For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
    1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. [die prematurely]

    How does a believer partake of the LORD’s supper worthily? By examining themselves first, that they are not willfully unrepentant. If they willfully continue in sin and then partake of the LORD’s supper, then they are guilty of the body and blood of the LORD.

    This passage tells us that MANY saved believers get sick and die bcos of this sin. It happened then, it’s worse now.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: