who were dead in trespasses and sins…
Faith is a gift from God.
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who were dead in trespasses and sins…
Faith is a gift from God.
Please see Comments
Ian Vincent 
September 17, 2011 at 11:30 am
And you has he made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins: In which in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our behavior in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, has made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you are saved;) And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are you saved through faith; and THAT not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:1-10
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Saving faith is a gift from God.
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
If faith were not a gift, then man could have grounds to boast.
He could boast that his OWN faith has saved him.
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This is a problem for the anti-election believers. The source of their salvation is a faith which they believe is self-generated and not a gift. Therefore. the origin of their salvation is within their own selves and within their own power to believe.
Whereas, when one believes that faith is a gift, then the origin of one’s salvation is found in God alone. This is also the source of our comfort.
September 18, 2011 at 12:08 am
1 Corinthians 4:7 For who makes you to differ from another? and what do you have that you did not receive? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it?
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
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George Whitefield, one of the most powerful evangelists in history, also believed in election and predestination. When someone questioned him as to the point of preaching the Gospel to every creature if only certain men are predestined to believe, he answered something like this, Preaching the Gospel to every creature is the means by which God calls forth His elect, whom He has preordained for Salvation.
That way, when we preach, we are looking FOR GOD TO SAVE by the power of His Gospel.
If we didn’t believe this, then we would believe that the salvation of men hinges entirely upon how eloquently we can convince them to believe.
Who gets the glory? This question is key to understanding everything in the Kingdom.
September 24, 2011 at 2:25 am
http://fleebabylon.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/am-i-a-calvinist/
October 5, 2011 at 11:08 pm
John Calvin wrote:
Calvin is making a deduction. If some are the elect, then it logically follows that the rest are not the elect. BUT he should have just stuck with the Scriptures and not gone out on a limb. BUT if he had just simply explained the Scriptures, without extrapolating into areas of conjecture (where the Apostles didn’t go) he wouldn’t be famous, right? People would say, Well, isn’t that obvious? Aren’t you just quoting the Bible?
Probably Calvin would agree, or has written somewhere, that God doesn’t judge anyone on the basis of election, but according to their works.
No one is saved by their works but everyone is judged according to their works, funny enough.
I would want to believe that God is Sovereign over all the earth, yet He cannot be blamed for man’s sin and rejection of Him.
I believe God is One and yet three Persons. I believe Jesus is God the Son, and that He is from the beginning, but i can’t give an explanation of these facts that would satisfy the human mind, alone.
…No man can come to me except the Father draw him... Has anyone got anything intelligent to say about this? (no mumbo jumbo, please)
Taking all the Scriptures into account, not one Scripture witnesses that people can come to Jesus just by themselves, without the Father drawing them. So, we accept this as a fact and move on.
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It’s a “true or false” question : Can anyone come to Jesus unless the Father draw him? True or false?
I say, True.
Of course, that’s not the whole counsel of God, yet it is a true statement which can stand on it’s own as being true.
It doesn’t need to be qualified. It is either a fact, or it is not.
(my comments from a forum)
October 8, 2011 at 2:16 am
“Going out on a limb” means going places the Bible writers didn’t go, going further into a subject than Jesus and the Apostles did, going where they never went. Drawing sweeping conclusions and summaries which they never made.
Election is there, and accountability and responsibility is there, and that’s enough for me. I think it was enough for Paul.
October 9, 2011 at 12:36 am
Acts 2:23
Him,G5126 being deliveredG1560 by theG3588 determinateG3724 counselG1012 andG2532 foreknowledgeG4268 of God,G2316 ye have taken,G2983 and byG1223 wickedG459 handsG5495 have crucifiedG4362 and slain:G337
G3724
ὁρίζω
horizō
hor-id’-zo
From G3725; to mark out or bound (“horizon”), that is, (figuratively) to appoint, decree, specify: – declare, determine, limit, ordain.
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Rom 8:29
ForG3754 whomG3739 he did foreknow,G4267 he alsoG2532 did predestinateG4309 to be conformed toG4832 theG3588 imageG1504 of hisG848 Son,G5207 that heG846 might beG1511 the firstbornG4416 amongG1722 manyG4183 brethren.G80
Rom 8:30 MoreoverG1161 whomG3739 he did predestinate,G4309 themG5128 he alsoG2532 called:G2564 andG2532 whomG3739 he called,G2564 themG5128 he alsoG2532 justified:G1344 andG1161 whomG3739 he justified,G1344 themG5128 he alsoG2532 glorified.G1392
G4309
προορίζω
proorizō
pro-or-id’-zo
From G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: – determine before, ordain, predestinate.
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Acts 17:26
AndG5037 hath madeG4160 ofG1537 oneG1520 bloodG129 allG3956 nationsG1484 of menG444 for to dwellG2730 onG1909 allG3956 theG3588 faceG4383 of theG3588 earth,G1093 and hath determinedG3724 the timesG2540 before appointed,G4384 andG2532 theG3588 boundsG3734 of theirG848 habitation;G2733
G4384
προτάσσω
protassō
prot-as’-so
From G4253 and G5021; to pre-arrange, that is, prescribe: – before appoint.
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An interesting doctrine you are putting forth here, brother Paul. You are saying that God predetermined and pre-arranged the Cross and the future of the world and the whole human race.
IF (just, if) God could not predetermine the future, and mankind could go beyond God’s authority to determine things and cancel them out, then that would make men greater than God.
But it would be foolish to argue that God does not predetermine certain things, when we’ve just read from Scripture that He does.
It should produce the true fear and awe of God.
October 9, 2011 at 2:44 am
When a man realizes that he, personally, is solely the object of God’s mercy, then he doesn’t consider God a tyrant for making him such a recipient of mercy, for having mercy on him. Just the opposite, he has boundless gratitude.
October 11, 2011 at 12:47 am
a) What is mercy? If you are saved by God’s mercy alone, then describe the nature and operation of that mercy – how it was extended to you and became effectual in you.
b) I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy… If God does not extend mercy to someone, what does that mean? If you are solely an object of God’s mercy, what does that mean?
c) The Arminian view negates God’s mercy and glorifies sinful man as having some innate goodness. They say God extends mercy to sinners on the basis of their innate goodness – that is, some deserve mercy and some don’t, so God extends mercy to “the good sinner”, who is deserving of His mercy. As nutty as a nut tree.
d) On the matter of prayer and intercession: Many of the “great” Calvinistic evangelists were also powerful intercessors. If you understand that salvation is by God’s mercy alone, then you plead with Him to extend His mercy, as the Holy Spirit leads. An “election person” DEPENDS entirely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit. An “anti-election” person, by nature, does not have that dependency on God, to do His specific will, for in their mind man is in control, not God.
e) Therefore, Arminians have no real fear of God, and spew out hate to anyone who disagrees with them.
f) I have been told by Arminians that some of the greatest and most effective men of God in the church age were actually evil. But no rational explanation is given for the accusation. “Yes, they’re evil, but i actually have not read what they preached and i have no interest either…”
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The Bible teaches BOTH election and man’s responsibility to choose.
I accept both truths, Armninians deny one. It’s as simple as that.
What is mercy? (Is that a trick question?)
Jesus said, no man can come to Him except the Father draw him. The Arminian explanation for this is that God searches and finds a basically good person, and then decides to draw that person to Jesus on the basis of their own innate human goodness.
But the Biblical view is that if there is any goodness in a person it is by the grace of God given to them. (Sure, they may reject that grace)
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I’m solely an object of God’s mercy.
What do I have that I did not receive? Nothing.
It was His mercy alone which granted me repentance unto life and granted me faith in Jesus, and opened my eyes to see Jesus.
And when i pray for the lost i pray that exactly the same mercy that was extended to me will be extended to them.
If the Holy Spirit does not move me to pray for someone, then i don’t. I can’t pray without the Holy Spirit showing me what to pray and for whom.
I will mercy on whom I will have mercy… No one has yet explained how it doesn’t mean literally that
October 12, 2011 at 2:50 am
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executes my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
(Isaiah 46:9-11)
Is this foreknowledge or predestination?
Foreknowledge, as wonderful (unexplainable) as it is, is not predestination (which is also unexplainable to the human mind).
Arminians believe only in God’s foreknowledge. They don’t believe that God decrees the end from the beginning. That is, He has the Sovereign authority to bring His purposes to pass.
They say, No, God does not declare the end from the beginning, He just knows what will happen. He is not decreeing anything. Man and the devil is in control and God just knows beforehand what they will do. That’s Arminianism.
They won’t admit that God had a plan and He performed it. To them, the history of the human race, and the event of the Cross, was all the express will of man and’or the devil. They mock at the idea that these things were the preordained plan of God.
They mock God by saying that God merely knew it would happen, but He didn’t cause it to happen.
It puts man or the devil in the place of God.
God is made into MERELY THE SPECTATOR over the human race. He sits up there as a spectator, knowing the end result, but knowing that the end result was not His plan, and that He was powerless to bring His plans to pass.
So, is God a tyrant or a spectator? Neither.
Neither Calvin or Arminius could explain all the relevant Scriptures on this matter.
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i think both John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius had equal degrees of truth and error.
October 14, 2011 at 1:35 am
If you scan your eyes across the spectrum of present day Christianity, you will note that the most popular movements today are all Arminian in their belief system.
The ethos of “whatever man can dream, he can achieve” is an Arminian ethos, for in such a mind there are no inconvenient clauses, like, “It may not be God’s plan”, for in such a belief system, man is the master of his own identity and destiny. There is no inconvenience of conforming to God’s preordained will and plan, for they think such thnking is “Calvinistic”, limiting and fatalistic.
The ethos at the tower of Babel is exactly the Arminian ethos.
All of the most deluded movements today are extreme Arminians : like Warren’s PDL, Joel Osteen, the TBN crew, “name it and claim it”, all megachurches, you name it…… All Arminians in their belief system.
But also, those groups who claim to be Calvinists today, largely, are quite dead.
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And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
(John 6:65-66)
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Why didn’t they like this, no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. ? What is so objectionable about this statement?
Answer: It cuts their heart of pride to the core. They can no longer glory in themselves, and their ego detests that thought, it’s worse than death, for them, to have nothing they can boast about.
This is why the seeker-sensitive, megachurch people don’t like to teach election, as Jesus did, for the same thing would happen: most of their congregation wouldn’t like it and they would walk away, as they did to Jesus when He preached election.
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This subject also has connections to the Dominionism (Kingdom Now) movement.
Dominiionists are Arminians.
Jesus said, Few are saved. Enter in at the Narrow Gate, few enter in… Dominionists reject that and believe that THEY can save the whole human race thru their efforts. That there is “an elect” is just nonsense in their mind, and limiting to their ambitions.
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Most Arminians don’t call themselves Arminian, and that’s OK, that’s their right, and i can respect that.
Like with you, _______, i can respect the fact that you don’t call yourself an Arminian, but i’ve yet to see where you disagree with Arminius on any point.
At which point do you disagreee with Arminianism?
How do any of the people i’ve named differ in their beliefs from Arminius? They speak exactly the same doctrine, yet all don’t call themselves Arminian.
Same would be true with many in regard to Calvinism, but the number is less. Arminiianism is the pervasive ideology today.
(These are my comments from a forum)
October 15, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Someone wrote in response to election:
This is a strawman.
As has already been said, it is God who chooses to use His saints as vessels of prayer (the emphasis is on God, not man), as the instruments thru which He performs His good and perfect will. Same with Spirit-led evangelism. People who know and fear God only want to pray His will, they want to do His will, and not their own.
In this way, belief in election/predestination, AND total surrender/yielding to the Holy Spirit (to pray into being the will of God, and to reach the lost) go together like a hand in a glove.
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John 17:9 I pray for them: I don’t pray for the world, but for them that you have given me; for they are yours.
Election people seek to pray the specific will, purpose and plan of God into being, as our LORD Jesus showed us here. Anti-election people wouldn’t care to pray God’s plan, bcos they don’t believe He has one.
In my experience, election people seem to intercede for specific people whom God has put on their heart, while anti-election people pray vast, sweeping prayers, that all the nation or world will be saved (their bottom-line is self-glorification).
The apostate church is overwhelmingly anti-election, as i’ve already proven. It appeals to the carnal Christian.
October 21, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Could it be that God draws those to Christ whom are seeking the Truth, and nobody comes but that they have been drawn? That we are free to choose God or not, and that outside of our choice, specifically in reference to coming to know the one true God and live in a relationship with Him, the rest is grace?
For instance, could it be that God indeed knew from the foundation of the world all that would happen (the Fall, the war, etc.), and that His creation would be faced with a choice. To choose the way of Satan and evil or Christ and light. Knowing then also that His creation would make both choices, He foreordained a way for all that would choose Him to come to Him, remain in Him, and be delivered from the Kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of light, conquer evil, and restore His creation for all eternity? After all, the Bible declares that the Lake of Fire was made for the devil and his angels, not for man, though there will be men who end up there. So my question again, could it be that God desired that all men would choose Him, but knew this would not be the case, so He made the necessary provisions for those He knew in their heart would seek the truth?
How might this play out in life? What if some come to the light by knowledge of Christ, and what if some come to Christ by knowledge of the light, but God draws both? What if God knows us all deeply and intimately, all of our thoughts and all of our circumstances, and knows exactly what needs to be done to bring us to the place where we’ll choose Him, if it is in us to do such, and then His grace draws us on the course while at the same time we are making the free choices along the way. For some, perhaps that begins a dissatisfaction with the way things are in the world and they begin to think about if this world is all there is. Or perhaps, it’s anger at the injustice they see. Or perhaps, it’s wondering if God exists. Those that genuinely desire Him, or His light, in their hearts perhaps He then, beginning with these thoughts, draws them to their eventual meeting and acceptance of Christ (to be Scriptural: where they’re fully “made alive”). Perhaps others hear the name of Christ at a young age and then He draws them to their eventual meeting and understanding of Him in entirety, when they too are born again and made alive, which includes then the desire being planted for His light and kingdom. But either way, it is God the Father doing the drawing to Christ, which was His predestined plan for everyone He knew would seek and desire the Truth from before the foundations of the world. Is this not possible?
In this paradigm then too it would make sense that all people are moving only in 2 directions. Either further towards Christ or further away from Him, and God is giving everyone the desires of their heart and bringing them to the conclusion they themselves are desiring, whether that’s to know God or whether that’s the desire to not know God, and whether the desire has even matured yet to the desire of God at the time or whether it’s something else which will eventually lead to that maturity. And in His plan He uses some to water and and some to harvest, for all people are at different places in their hearts at different times, but in that process but He is sovereign knowing where they’re at and knowing what it will take to bring that desire to fruition, if the desire is there at all (for those that aren’t, he gives over to their desires and allows the hardening process to continue). To those who already have light and desire it, he keeps on giving, but to those who have and don’t care, he takes away even what light they have. To those who keep on knocking, he opens, to those who seek, he draws, and to those who don’t, he hardens. He brings people to the culmination of their heart’s desire and has predestined it all to its Ultimate Conclusion at the end of time, which is the separation of the goats from the sheep to the kingdom they have chosen, be it the devils and the lake of fire or Gods and the new world.
Another thought: could it be then that it pleased God to save the Apostle Paul on the day that he did, but that He also knew Paul would have rejected Him the day before. Could it be that God sovereignly knew all of Paul’s thoughts and the inner workings of his heart and exactly what day He would be willing to receive the grace of God and exactly what steps would be necessary to bring him to that place, and that He then worked Paul’s life in that direction, using Paul’s decisions to bring Himself glory at the same time, and that God does this also for those whom He knows will never choose Him, so he hardens their heart in that direction too using their actions to ultimately work together with His for the ultimate good of all those who do love Him? Could it be that God remains entirely sovereign and man entirely free all the same?
Could it be that Jesus in John 17 is not praying for the world, but instead for those that He was given because, while He did indeed love the world and desire their repentance, His mission and prayer at that specific time and in that passage, is only for those whom the Father had already brought and given to Him or who would bring and give to Him, based on their growing desire for Him.
In short, is it possible that God, though not the cause of all things, is using and will use all things for His own purposes, even what the enemy means for evil He will use for good, and that He is perfectly capable of allowing everyone to be absolutely free, while remaining Himself also entirely sovereign? Could His ways be that much higher than our ways?
I think I could entertain and converse with all of the Scriptures you listed above while maintaining the position I just laid out. I don’t want to go down the road of proof-texting but I mention my thoughts only to perhaps give you an angle that maybe you haven’t considered yet? And if you have, please simply disregard it.
Thank you, and take care.
October 21, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Interestingly, in Romans where Paul talks about none desiring God he seems to be generalizing and meaning that most did not desire Him as He is worthy of, obviously people did desire Him before or our Old Testaments would be empty. But that God has overlooked even those times and now is calling men to repentance, all men, and given them the means to fully repent in the way that He desires by the Holy Spirit. This would make sense too in Christ saying that when He is lifted up He will draw “ALL” men to Himself. But it is obvious that not all men will come. While the Holy Spirit is working to draw all men to Him, there are also many who are choosing to not listen to the Holy Spirit and rather to choose darkness. This is the one sin that will not be forgiven of men, the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit, while all other sins have been forgiven. It seems that after Pentecost, we are not “totally depraved” in the way it’s often spoken of, but have the Holy Spirit working with our (everyone) own desires to convict unbelievers of their unbelief in Christ, point them to Christ’s righteousness, to convict the believer of their righteous standing in Christ, and that this world has been judged along with the ruler of it. God is drawing all men but He also indicated that we can fight the spirit, which He obviously knew would happen, and harden our hearts against Him, holding onto the darkness of our minds, or we can respond to the light we have, and God waters it, bringing it to fruition in Himself. Those who fight the Spirit choosing darkness will end up in a place they weren’t created for: the Lake of Fire. It seems to me that God can be sovereign in the “drawing” process while we can remain free in the “willing” process.
October 21, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Sorry for so many words, last comment.. I promise :)
In the end, we all get what it is that we desire. Everyone who wants God will get Him no matter what while everyone who does not want Him will not get Him. And everyone who desires Him, no matter the stage of the desire, He ensures will get Him for He is the great Hound of Heaven sovereignly working us to Himself. He is faithful.
October 21, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Thanks for your comments, Kris.
I believe in every word of God : In election and (of course) in man’s responsibility and accountability to God, that Christ died for all, not for a few, and that the gospel is for “whosoever will” and it is to be proclaimed to the whole world, God’s desire that all repent and none be lost.
All the people i respect deeply hold that this subject is one the Bible concludes as a “mystery” – something which the human mind cannot presently fully understand, but only in part.