On Facebook i’m noticing a new breed of “out of church” Christian and they shred the Bible to pieces, and if you try and discuss a Bible truth with them, the way they talk (on any subject) is as if they were the first person to ever have the “full truth” about it, as if they are the center of all knowledge and God will consult them first, there is not much understanding of a common, shared faith, it is all “individual” now.
They don’t understand that the Apostles “had it all” and we are just learning what they learned. What people think is a new revelation (if it is true) is simply what the Apostles and all the genuine saints over the centuries already knew and walked in. If not, then it’s not true. That has to sink in. Anything else is simply the sin of pride.
The trend i see is that “out of church” often means “out of sound doctrine” and “out of fellowship”. For some of them the things they object to in the religious system are actually the good things, like commitment and self-sacrifice. “Out of church” has become for many a way to avoid the reality of commitment to relationship and to a sound, Biblical life and faith, loving the body of Christ.
Of course, no true saint is “out of Church”: Out of Babylon, yes, but not out of relationship with the brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, for true relationship in Christ is the basis of His Church and He is still building His Church.
Ian Vincent 
May 29, 2013 at 2:57 am
The death of self is a core teaching of the LORD Jesus which has been cast by the wayside. It’s no longer ME, it’s WE, it’s US, we are in this together as one body of Christ. Is Christ divided? The Christian who does not die to self is a ticking time bomb. Self-love is the most destructive force in Christendom as it is the very essence of delusion, which is why the LORD Jesus said that unless a man deny himself (deny his own life, his own identity in the world) and take up his cross he cannot be my disciple, unless a man forsake all that he has he cannot be my disciple.
One such person on Facebook was discussing a Biblical topic and implying that they are the first or only person on the planet to see or understand it. And that person was saying to others that they will seek further revelation on the matter, implying, “No one really knows the truth yet about this, but come back later and I will have the definitive answer from God for you.”
It’s like the jury is still out on the Bible and God sent them just at the right time to settle the matter, as if people can’t read and understand the Bible for themselves without this spiritual mediator. It is absolutely no different than the Pope, it’s the same spirit.
See, there’s nothing wrong with asking questions and seeking answers and thinking “outside the box”, the only problem is the attitude, whether we are seeking what is the common faith, the common truth – seeking exactly what Paul and many of the early saints walked in, or whether our position is from self-love, from we being the center of our world, an uncrucified life, and then anything we do “see” will be contaminated and defiled and blurred by self. Self-love is self-referring, to live inside a bubble. We cannot have true fellowship with Christians who live inside their own bubble of self, who define everything in terms of their own self: whether they like it, whether it’s good for them, whether it boosts their ego, whether it fits in with their agenda and dreams.
The mature Christian has little regard for what they feel about anything for the truth has more authority than their own feelings, the truth supersedes the self-life for they died and their life is hidden with Christ in God. Now, it’s what He feels about it, it’s what He thinks about it… and this understanding is a corporate one, never solely an individual one.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one’s own interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:20-21
This means there is no private, individual interpretation of any scripture, it must be corporate.
May 29, 2013 at 9:28 am
I agree. I’ve noticed their tone too- smug to the point of being offputting. Two, what happened to Heb 10:25 in their Bibles?
May 30, 2013 at 1:56 am
Facebook discussion:
Ian Vincent
The death of self is a core teaching of the LORD Jesus which has been cast by the wayside. It’s no longer ME, it’s WE, it’s US, we are in this together as one body of Christ. Is Christ divided? The Christian who does not die to self is a ticking time bomb. Self-love is the most destructive force in Christendom as it is the very essence of delusion, which is why the LORD Jesus said that unless a man deny himself (deny his own life, his own identity in the world) and take up his cross he cannot be my disciple, unless a man forsake all that he has he cannot be my disciple.
“…as if they were the first person to ever have the “full truth” about it…”
One such person on Facebook was discussing a Biblical topic and implying that they are the first or only person on the planet to see or understand it. And that person was saying to others that they will seek further revelation on the matter, implying, “No one really knows the truth yet about this, but come back later and I will have the definitive answer from God for you.”
It’s like the jury is still out on the Bible and God sent them just at the right time to settle the matter, as if people can’t read and understand the Bible for themselves without this spiritual mediator. It is absolutely no different than the Pope, it’s the same spirit.
22 hours ago · Like
Ian Vincent
See, there’s nothing wrong with asking questions and seeking answers and thinking “outside the box”, the only problem is the attitude, whether we are seeking what is the common faith, the common truth – seeking exactly what Paul and many of the early saints walked in, or whether our position is from self-love, from we being the center of our world, an uncrucified life, and then anything we do “see” will be contaminated and defiled and blurred by self. Self-love is self-referring, to live inside a bubble. We cannot have true fellowship with Christians who live inside their own bubble of self, who define everything in terms of their own self: whether they like it, whether it’s good for them, whether it boosts their ego, whether it fits in with their agenda and dreams.
The mature Christian has little regard for what they feel about anything for the truth has more authority than their own feelings, the truth supersedes the self-life for they died and their life is hidden with Christ in God. Now, it’s what He feels about it, it’s what He thinks about it… and this understanding is a corporate one, never solely an individual one.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one’s own interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” 2 Peter 1:20-21
This means there is no private, individual interpretation of any scripture, it must be corporate.
21 hours ago · Like
Robert Osborn
Ian Vincent Re: “…some people have been badly hurt by churches, it may not always be a pride issue.” ….. My point was that new or private and exclusive interpretations of Scripture spring from pride. I’m for “out of church” as in out of the system, but for relational church.
10 hours ago · Like
Robert Osborn
Robert Begnaud
Ian Vincent
This has no relevance to my post or to anything i believe.
2 hours ago · Like
Robert Begnaud
Ian Vincent
What do you want to talk about?
about an hour ago · Like
Robert Begnaud
Robert Begnaud
Ian Vincent
Re: “You said “some people have been hurt badly in churches” ” …… No, i didn’t say that, that was Robert Osborn, and i was quoting him………………..Re: ” the harlot – un- biblical traditional church services- what you have learned – you haven’t abandoned it.”……. What have i ever written which would cause you to believe that i am part of the harlot system? So that is why i said your post has no relevance to what i posted or to what i believe.
30 minutes ago · Like
Ian Vincent
My point was this: Just bcos folks are “out of church” it doesn’t mean they are yet “out of the woods” when it comes to sound Godly Christ-like character. Some leave the system and function relationally as real men and women of God, and preach the gospel and have fellowships which are a testimony to all. Others jump out of the frying pan into the fire, for the reason they left the system is that they are jerks and have no real love for anyone, and this way they can be free from any commitment or real relationship, or accountability. And this number is increasing and they give “out of church” a bad name .
19 minutes ago · Like
Robert Begnaud
Ian Vincent
Some will understand what i wrote and take heed. And praise God for that. No, it’s not a “them or us” mentality. Believers in the system are not our enemy. That is the thinking which sends people off into the fringes, and that is my subject.
May 30, 2013 at 2:27 am
One of my points (in my post) was that i’m observing a trend with “out of church” Christians that there is tendency to unite around false teachings and Scripture-twisting, and there’s also a false unity caused by having a perceived common enemy: “the system”. But praise God there are many “out of churchers” who are in fellowship with the body of Christ in a real Christ-glorifying way.
May 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm
Though the “system” is AN enemy, it is not THE enemy. I am seeing (even from within myself) how Christians have forgotten our warfare is not against flesh and blood, but principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. This “system enemy” –common bond — that has overtaken the Church will be the very thing that will cause Christians/Church Buildings to unite under a false movement of some sort to stop evil. It appears “good” but it is not THE truth. This common bond will help pave the way to anti-christ, in my opinion. Is this what you mean, Ian?
May 31, 2013 at 12:52 am
I’m not exactly sure what you mean, if you could re-phrase it.
At this point in time i believe that the antichrist/beast (same person) will come into power after he has destroyed Babylon the Great, false Christianity. He can’t destroy all Christians in Christendom but he destroys the power of the system, which lies in physical things not spiritual things. For example, if the beast destroys the Vatican then he has destroyed Catholicism bcos their faith is based on temporal earthly power – things they can see – temples and idols, and not a faith based on the Person of Jesus who can only be seen by faith.
Protestantism is not much different. People have put their faith in men and when those men fall they will also lose their “faith”.
So after Babylon falls then the people of Christendom switch their allegiance to the beast. They will change colors.
So what we are witnessing now in the Christian religious system are its final death throes before the One World Religion comes.
And the Bible says that the fall of Babylon is God’s judgment on her.
So even before the antichrist/beast comes false Christianity will be judged by God.
So even in the secular world there are movements rising up which are calling the Catholic Church to account for her abuse of people.
And in America there are fringe Christians, or dysfunctional Christians or not Christian at all who are lifting the skirts and revealing the nakedness of the religious system.
So God can use anyone, even unbelievers, as instruments of His judgment, just as He did in OT times.
May 31, 2013 at 1:24 am
….If a televangelist goes broke then he has no power any more. In American Christianity when the money is gone then everything is gone.
Do you think anyone would go and listen to Joel Osteen if he was a homeless man with only $1 who was preaching the very same message on the sidewalk? Of course not.
People only listen to those preachers bcos they are rich, but when the money runs out the game will be over. What a contrast to the true Church and true Christianity.
May 31, 2013 at 2:21 am
I guess I should have clarified what i was talking about pertaining to the Church over here lining themselves up together under one banner to fight a “system” i.e. corrupt government. It is easy to see Christians are trusting in man to rise up and do only what God can do. Yet, God IS judging and some people still can not see it.
Both husband and I have said exactly what you have said, that when the money fails, then these greedy phony preachers will fail. Like you said, who is going to pay to go hear a motavational speech by Joel osteen or anyone else? Yet, the wolves keep finding ways to fleece the people and I believe greed is behind their desires to even want to listen to these people. Any true christianity over here is far and in-between. Many will have their lives shattered becasue they are trusting in these men.
Yes, the anti-christ destroys the physical things and will rebuild in his image. It is happening now over here.