My comments on FB re: Ravi Zacharias talk on homosexual identity :
It sounds like the core of Ravi Zacharias’ argument relates to accepting ones identity as homosexual. But, if a person professes Christ they can no longer identify themselves as homosexual, fornicator, liar, murderer, thief etc. That was their former identity. Now it must be this:
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20 [KJV])
They have to die to their former lusts and former identity.
Ravi Zacharias refers to a “homosexual disposition”. But Jesus calls us to die and be crucified to our “disposition” to sin and be raised to new life in Him
So, the issue is concerning people who are not willing to die to sin and live to Christ, and yet still call themselves Christian. To identify as a homosexual surely means to justify that particular lust.
(Those who market themselves in the Christian media world know that to simply explain what the Bible says will not sell.)
Ian Vincent 
June 29, 2015 at 8:16 am
Exactly! The Holy Spirit will not live in a filthy temple.
June 30, 2015 at 7:21 am
To add: A “disposition” toward homosexuality is a real thing some people have, but the issue is concerning justifying that “disposition”. Many homosexuals have been truly born again and they still struggle with that “disposition”, but they don’t justify it, they don’t approve of it, they hate it, and they pray that they will hate it as much as God does.
And it’s the same for any of us regarding our former sinful lives. If any time we feel the “disposition” toward sin we have to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus, walking in the Holy Spirit.
June 30, 2015 at 8:00 am
July 2, 2015 at 4:49 am
Debate on House Church Discussion List on FB:
Ian Vincent Jim said: ” Your logic was that fruitfulness proves that heterosexual relationship is the only God-approved relationship. That is an argument from nature, but does not hold because of the large number of hetero relationships that are not fruitful.” …..See More
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Ian Vincent The brave new world of no more Christian values! Let’s all hold hands and sing Kumbaya! Then the nukes start dropping from the sky, and the game is over.
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Jim Wehde Ian: “Bcos a large number of heterosexual relationships are unfruitful this is proof that God also approves of homosexual relationships?” No, sir, you missed the point. The point of the observation was to show that fertile, childbearing relationships are not any kind of complete proof of what is God-approved. No more than that.
Sorry to be such a frustration to you, sir.
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Ian Vincent Anyone can read what you said. You plainly imply something, then when caught, try to slip out on a technicality. Your conscience allows this. I’m not posting for your benefit. It’s for those who have still have some values.
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Ian Vincent Does God approve of any form of homosexual relationship? Yes or No?
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Jim Wehde What is the right answer, Ian?
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Ian Vincent You don’t know?
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Ian Vincent Jim, here’s an answer for you: “I’m not sure!” Try that one.
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Ian Vincent That’s the technique the Pharisees used when they wanted to avoid answering Jesus question. It’s a good device.
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Jim Wehde I think the church will spend the next several decades or more asking themselves that question. And I would like to be a part of the dialog. I would like to refrain from casting into the “outer darkness” anyone, anywhere on the spectrum on this issue, as we decide if Theologians at any time in the Christian Church have jaded us on this issue, if translators have played any part.
It may well be that most of the church comes down on the side of all homosexual relationships disqualifying a person from God’s forgiveness. I suspect that won’t be the case, but God may have some surprises.
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Jim Wehde Ian, honest request here: what question did the Pharisees answer “I am not sure” to Jesus? They sometimes refused to answer because their answer would make them look bad to the people (such as the question of whether John’s baptism was from God.). I don’t remember an “I’m not sure”.
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Ian Vincent Matthew 21:25-27.
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Ian Vincent So, God approves of any form of homosexual relationship? Or, the answer to this question is not found in the Bible? (please no more fudging, just answer the question)
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Jim Wehde Aah, the “I don’t know” occurred in the baptism of John passage. Yet they most certainly knew the answer – they knew that John’s baptism wasn’t from heaven. But they were afraid to answer.
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Ian Vincent You also know the answer. Every one on the planet does.
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Jim Wehde Ah, a little exaggeration! I suspect that the conservatives on this issue are wrong, and I suspect that God is not mad at gay people. But, like Martin Luther who hated the book of James, but would not act unilaterally to remove it from his Bible without working with the entire Church, so I seek to keep dialog open with the entire Church on this issue, as all of us humbly work out the answer.
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Jim Wehde Was that enough information for you to take elsewhere and have me condemned, Ian?
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Ian Vincent They knew John’s baptism was from heaven, but they could not admit that as that would mean they have to accept Jesus, for John testified of Jesus.
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Ian Vincent Jim, you condemn yourself, no one needs to help you out with that.
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Jim Wehde The passage does not say that.
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Ian Vincent Timmy: Yes it does! Sally, No it doesn’t! Timmy: Yes it does! Sally, No it doesn’t!
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Jim Wehde smile emoticon It’s okay if you don’t want to carefully consider this. The church will go on without you.
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Ian Vincent Let me know when you have anything intelligent to say. smile emoticon
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Jim Wehde I am but a fool. And an idiot.
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Ian Vincent One thing is true, you know that the Bible condemns any form of homosexual relationship. You are calculating, like the Pharisees, how you can answer this.
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Jim Wehde No, I am honest, Ian. And I think you are too. If you would relate to me as a person, and not a theological position, you would see that.
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Ian Vincent My BS detector just went berserk! I’m done with this thread.
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Jim Wehde Exactly.
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Ryan Mckinney Regardless if you two think it is sin or not. How are going to love the person? How are you going to share Jesus? Is pointing out there sins? Is it getting them to agree with you? Maybe it is loving them the way Jesus loves you. Love is the transcendent truth. God is that love. God has already dealt with sin at the cross. It’s done.
Ian’s comment:
Re: “God has already dealt with sin at the cross. It’s done.”
You seem to think Jesus is not coming back to judge the world?
There’s one sin He did not atone for on the Cross, it is the willful rejection of Him.
July 2, 2015 at 5:43 am
Ryan Mckinney So then Jesus was confused when He said it was finished?
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Ryan Mckinney Are sins forgiven past, present, and future? Even before I do them?
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Ian Vincent Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(II Thessalonians 1:6-9 [KJV])
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Ian Vincent For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Hebrews 10:26-31 [KJV])
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Ian Vincent There is a phony kind of love which can’t factor in these truths.
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Jim Wehde I love the book of Hebrews. The author’s warnings about going back to a life of Law are always pertinent.
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Ian Vincent Ryan, there’s a “little” condition attached: one has to repent and believe.
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Ryan Mckinney Since you’re using the scriptures to support your view verses its original intent I will ask theses questions with your logic. Have you ever willfully sinned since your receiving of the knowledge of truth? So what do have waiting for you?
It seems to me that you don’t like answering questions. I’ve asked you three questions and you haven’t answered them. Are you calculating?
30 mins · Like · 1
Ian Vincent I answered your questions with 2 scriptures. They fully answer. Have i willfully sinned since ive been saved? Do you think my answer will determine whether the statement made in scripture is true or not? Let’s believe scripture is true and work from there.
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Ryan Mckinney Ian, “little” condition. Is God’s love unconditional? Who did Jesus not die for? Who’s sins did He not cover?
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Ian Vincent Believing is not necessary? Faith is the condition.
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Ryan Mckinney If you’ve sinned willfully since you’ve been saved then isn’t that game over for you?
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Ian Vincent Jesus took away the sin of the world, and most of the world did not accept His sacrifice. Jesus said few are saved.
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Ian Vincent Let’s first accept that the statement is true and work from there. I have sinned since i got saved. If i had sinned willfully, as per the definition in Hebrews, then i would not still be walking in the light and love of Christ, as i am.
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Ryan Mckinney Ok if the statement is true in Hebrews as you are understanding it. Then it is game over for you as for me and everyone else. Jesus saved us and we screwed it up and now all we have to expect is a wrathful judgement.
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Ian Vincent “Willfully” means to change your view about your sin, that it is not so bad. The will or conscience becomes seared. When “Christians” justify theirs or anyone else’s sin it shows a seared conscience, and they are willfully sinning.
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